Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?

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Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?

Postby Yessica » 21 Jun 2014, 06:42

Gavin posed a question in possible topics which is "Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?"

It has been discussed in several threads so far and not given one of it's own.

What is your opinion?

I am currently pregnant with my second son due to this winter. I feel a little nervous bringing a second boy into this world because boys face a culture which goes against their nature such as in schools.... add to that that a little boy will be told his gender caused nearly everything going wrong on this world.

Anyway I think that times are actually good to bring up a child. When in human history did (most of) Europe ever enjoy such a long period of peace (defined as no war on it's soil in this case), prosperity and freedom?

I can hardly think of any time that would have been better to have a child.

Is it right to bring a child into this world? To my mind it is always right unless:

1. You don't like children or there is another reason why you cannot give them the love and stability they need
2. You have a illness that is a) severe and b) has a strong heritable component or have an illness like that running in your family - It is however important too remember that nearly everybody has at least something bad running in his family
3. You live in a country that is allready affected by the ill-effects of overpopultion - in that case it would be okay to have some children but not a whole litter which will make the problem only worse
4. You are planning to make other people pay for your child

Looking forwards to hearing your opinions.
Yessica
 
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Re: Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?

Postby Elliott » 21 Jun 2014, 12:13

I think that, ironic though it seems, now is probably the best time to be creating children. The world they come into is flawed and turbulent, but also full of opportunity if they keep their heads above water. Medical science has never been better and is advancing fast. Technology in general makes many things easier and better. Learning has never been easier or more plentiful. Odds are, children will have good lives in this age.

True, they might be called upon to fight in a war, but that is a chance for a man to fulfil himself, be brave, make a difference, and truly defend his society.

True, they will be told at school that, being white, they are stained with historical evil, etc. - but you just make sure to counter this brainwashing at home.
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Re: Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?

Postby Mike » 22 Jun 2014, 01:36

Elliott wrote:I think that, ironic though it seems, now is probably the best time to be creating children. The world they come into is flawed and turbulent, but also full of opportunity if they keep their heads above water. Medical science has never been better and is advancing fast. Technology in general makes many things easier and better. Learning has never been easier or more plentiful. Odds are, children will have good lives in this age.


Exactly.

Our only doubt when deciding to have children was whether we were capable of looking after them properly ourselves; we weren't overly concerned about the state of the world.

Yessica's point (2) is an interesting one, though. Of course it's easy to slip into the murky world of eugenics if you take that view too far, but certainly it's something worth keeping in mind.
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Re: Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?

Postby Jonathan » 22 Jun 2014, 08:41

I'd also say it's a pretty good time to be having children.

I also agree with most of Yessica's criteria - they pretty much amount to the question "Can you and will you discharge your duty towards the child after it is born?"
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Re: Is it right to bring children, new lives, into this society?

Postby Yessica » 27 Jun 2014, 12:58

Mike wrote:Yessica's point (2) is an interesting one, though. Of course it's easy to slip into the murky world of eugenics if you take that view too far, but certainly it's something worth keeping in mind.


Depends on how you define "eugenics". It means "well born" as far as I know - "eu" means "good" and genos means "family", "a group claiming common ancestry" but also "birth".

If you have a broad definition every woman who is taking prenatal vitamins is already practicing eugenics because she hopes it would result in better health for her baby - born healthy.
On a microlevel you see a lot of things happening that would fit the term - such as people carefully selecting their sperm donors.

But that is not what we think of when we hear the term "eugenics", because it is associated with something darker, forced sterilisations and killings... and the fact that people fothright have that atrocities in mind is somewhat odd to my mind.

Most ideologies have a dark past. Take "egalitrism" for example, an ideology that sounds nothing but good, but in fact it has led to millions of deaths - just take the persons who were destroyed in gulags for being privileged as an example.

Forced abortions or sterilizations are hardly anything unique to the eugenics movement. China did (or still does?) practice them in order to prevent famines caused by overpopulation.
Forced abortions definetly break the human rights but that does not make the whole concept of "preventing famines" murky.

I am in favor of the individual carefully choosing if he or she wants to have children considering the genetic health of both partners amongst other factors.
I am totally opposed to the State meddeling into.

Just as I am much in favor of individuals and States taking measures to prevent famines but very much opposed to the state breaking individual rights.

I watched a documentary about a woman whose father was affected by a rare genetic disease, I think it was huntingston's disease. She wanted to marry and have children but learned her chance of having inherited the disease was 50% and if she was affected 50% of her children would be affected too. According to Wikipedia
Symptoms of the disease can vary between individuals and even among affected members of the same family, but usually progress predictably. The earliest symptoms are often subtle problems with mood or cognition. A general lack of coordination and an unsteady gait often follows. As the disease advances, uncoordinated, jerky body movements become more apparent, along with a decline in mental abilities and behavioral and psychiatric problems. Physical abilities are gradually impeded until coordinated movement becomes very difficult. Mental abilities generally decline into dementia. Complications such as pneumonia, heart disease, and physical injury from falls reduce life expectancy to around twenty years from the point at which symptoms begin. There is no cure for HD, and full-time care is required in the later stages of the disease.
She had a genetic test done, learned that she was not a carrier of the genetic mutation and went on to marry.

I think what she did was highly responsible.

On the other hand it is pretty obvious that there are some bad genes in nearly any family (just think of the number of cancers, or heart attacks or the high number of people who suffer from dementia in late age... nearly one third of the 80+ year olds as far as I heard). One should be careful not to be too overly critical of ones genes and also take into consideration that most illnesses are not as highly heritable as huntingtons disease.
To my mind it is a decision only the persons involved can make and should not be influeced by third parties... by the way third parties should also not try to coerce people into having children though they are or think they might be at risk. Where I am from there is some opposition against genetic testing and I do not understand why - how is it anybodies business if another person has his or her genes tested?
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