Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

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Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Gavin » 14 Jun 2013, 10:53

Hot on the heels of his last appearance, Tommy Robinson was just now on BBC Asian Network Radio too. They are now playing Bhanrga Rap type music.

I only heard the last few seconds but the host sounded extremely intolerant. These people clearly have no intention of integrating with mainstream British culture, either, but are keen to self-segregate, and the BBC is happy to assist them in this.

TR quoted Gladstone and Churchill on Islam and the presenter said those views were appalling. As I type, the BBC presenter ("Nihal") is now apologising profusely to anybody who was "offended" by what TR said (i.e. truths he told) - especially about the "prophet" Mohammed.

You've got to respect Tommy. What a shame it is left to him.

There will probably be a link to this interview (a phone-in) soon. Someone probably recorded it even if the BBC censor it.
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Gavin » 14 Jun 2013, 16:52

Here's that programme. So far I've only heard the headline news and the introduction, in which the presenter says, skeptically: "what they refer to as radical Islam".

Evidently the whole programme is targeted towards a particular "community" of the UK, thus encouraging segregation. Reportedly TR handled himself well but calls were heavily screened as sympathetic ones were eliminated. I think this going to be both annoying and interesting again... but still significant as we measure the barometer of Britain.

I've a feeling TR is going to be delivering some home truths about Islam that adherents are not going to want to hear, but they're going to have to hear them anyway.
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Gavin » 14 Jun 2013, 17:29

I'm going to run another commentary on this because I cannot believe the amount of logical fallacies.
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Gavin » 14 Jun 2013, 18:31

Okay, here we go.

  • Presenter begins by condemning TR for marching after Rigby murder "with anger in his heart". How else was he supposed to march? I felt extremely angry.
  • TR points out that groups of Muslims were celebrating the Rigby death online and in the streets. This fact is ignored by the presenter, who says he should not have gone to this "sensitive" area.
  • The presenter says Muslims absolutely condemned the murder. Not true - Muslim figures interviewed by BBC news were very equivocal.
  • The presenter says Breivik was a Christian. Untrue.
  • A recording is played of TR saying we will not tolerate terror attacks any more after 7/7. The presenter tries to present this as evil.
  • Tommy performing very well. Easier when the facts are on your side, though still hard when he enemy governs the terms of the debate.
  • They let a token call though thanking TR for what he is doing.
  • The presenter claims TR says all Muslims are terrorists. Child-like logical failure.
  • The presenter calls Breivik a Christian again. Breivik actually wrote "I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie".
  • TR about to explain death threats received by his wife when the presenter brings up issue of dispute between TR and his wife. Perhaps TR was guilty in some way, but this is an ad hominem attack and has nothing whatsoever to do with the point at hand. TR points this out.
  • TR reads out numerous specific death threats received. The presenter notably does not condemn these at all.
  • Caller asks if TR will condemn war crimes against Muslims. He does unreservedly (but of course these are not committed in the name of an ideology).
  • The presenter excuses Muslim "anger" due to Iraq (a murderous dictator was overthrown by the West here as they attempted to introduce democracy and they would have been damned by the Left if they had done nothing also).
  • The presenter calls Breivik a Christian again and says Muslims are suffering similar abuse in the UK to that which Muslims are inflicting.
  • TR a very good debater. Yet still the biased presenter excuses every Muslims attack while trying to accuse Christians.
  • TR coming out thick and fast with evidence of Muslim attacks in the UK. The presenter can't reply but tries anyway.
  • The presenter very keen to establish that TR said "the P word" once. Just once. Seems to think this abbreviation is equivalent to some of the other crimes and death threats discussed. It's a bit rude, that's all, it seems to me. Unproven so far.
  • Caller says EDL are small and irrelevant.
  • TR lists many Islamic bombers and would-be bombers in UK, points to anti-homosexual hate found on UK Islamic websites. Presenter skeptical.
  • TR calls caller pathetic for using word "racist".
  • The presenter tries approach of accusing TR of making money from selling EDL merchandise. He hasn't, but what would actually be wrong with that anyway?
  • Small credit to BBC - speck of glitter in the mud - Roger texts to say only the EDL are standing up against these things.
  • Female Muslim calls TR a racist (yawn). Is challenged, cannot justify it. Caller knows nothing about law. Claims law does not protect Muslims. Makes fool of herself even though she "did it in her dissertation".
  • The presenter says police dealt properly with the Muslim child rape gangs.
  • Caller still cannot say how TR is racist! Funny at this point.
  • TR points out that 85% of child grooming cases are Muslims. The presenter brings up Savile. TR responds admirably on these points.
  • TR asked to quote Koran. Succeeds. Doing very well.
  • Presenter panicking because TR using facts. TR victorious.
  • Caller accuses TR of being a paedophile.
  • Yet again TR is asked why EDL wear balaclavas. Explains death threats and job losses.
  • The presenter tries to get Tommy on the "P" word, the "N" word, and even the "B" word (Black! Yes, really!). Gives up.
  • TR right on form. I am impressed with his skills on air, not at all sure I could match them.
  • Caller says TR cannot make any criticism of Islam due to his own criminal convictions (simple logical error). Presenter tries this, too.
  • Imran phones in, asking TR if he is against halal meat. TR goes to town on this topic - it's a gift. Quotes Koran to the Muslim. Explains halal is not labelled and all non-Muslims must eat it.
  • The presenter supports halal slaughter. Read my report which details how this is both cruel and unnecessary.
  • The presenter incorrectly denies that halal meat is sold to non-Muslims.
  • The presenter says Muslim domination of areas is "globalisation" and we should just accept it.
  • Inarticulate Muslim caller phones in. Makes no sense.
  • Note, the presenter has not accepted there is any problem at all particular to Islam yet.
  • The presenter claims a Sikh was attacked by EDL recently. Is challenged. Fails. Backtracks.
  • TR performing extremely well. Admits there are racists in the EDL - and also in the BBC. 10-0 to Tommy at the moment, I would say.
  • TR asks Muslims to take to the streets in defence of freedom of speech.
  • Female phones in to say Tommy is "trying to start race riots". Never mind the beheading, then, I guess. TR speaking better than any politician. I think Churchill would be proud of him.
  • Caller phones to bizarrely ask why TR is not a racist (I think he phased it wrongly). Man is inarticulate, cannot pose his question. Finally says there are not more Muslim terrorists than other kinds. TR says this is a lie. Man fails.
That's the end of hour one.
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Nathan » 14 Jun 2013, 19:22

TR was on for a whole hour?! It's admirable that he has devoted himself to this cause, and I hope that one day, when the Establishment is actually on the British people's side rather than against them that he receives the formal gratitude he deserves, but despite the fact that he seems to hold his own so well, it is so maddening that defending this country against such a big and undeniably real a threat as radical Islam has been left to somebody like him, who by his own admission is not an educated man, or an easily respectable one at that.

It really shows how we have declined as a country that we don't have one single Churchill, or Powell, or Thatcher in mainstream politics that will say what the average person across the country is thinking and at least acknowledge that there is a problem and that we need to tackle it properly, rather than pretending it isn't happening, never mind appeasing the enemy. It also shows frankly how pathetic we have become that not one political party, even the so-called populist, anti-establishment one, will dare endorse TR or his concerns, all out of a fear of that dreaded R word.
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Gavin » 14 Jun 2013, 19:36

Part two:

  • An inarticulate caller asks when is Tommy going to have a go about Sikhs and others.
  • The presenter asks why Tommy is against mosque building. TR says we need to deal with the problems we already have.
  • Tommy has said preachers come over "from a cave in Afghanistan". The presenter leaps on this, having totally ignored the dozens of sound points TR has made already. He says this is "insulting", because they presumably don't all come from caves.
  • The presenter laments that being an imam is "unfortunately not a very well paid job".
  • The presenter accuses TR of saying all mosques are preaching hatred. TR denies this, but I actually wonder if he is a little mild in all that he says. Perhaps he should say he does not want Islam in the UK, full stop.
  • Presenter asks (get this) if it is not "Islamophobic" for TR to be critical of Islam. TR responds admirably on this, saying he can be critical of whatever religion he likes.
  • TR conflates Islam and Islamism again, somewhat. We will have to deal with this, I think.
  • TR explains that Mohammed was not peaceful (he ultimately wins this point). The presenter says he does not want to get into a Koran discussion "because we don't have an imam here".
  • TR explains that Islam was spread through war and the presenter says this was defence. See the Ottoman Empire which spread to the Gates of Vienna.
  • TR explains that the price for leaving Islam is death.
  • A token caller let through says he was disgusted that TR was trying to show death threats on the TV and was shouted down. The presenter shouts him down and says they cannot discuss this other (BBC) programme.
  • TR says the BBC have an agenda and the presenter says this is simply to "challenge him robustly on his views". And only to challenge him, clearly, never to concede that any are valid.
  • Another female Muslim phones in and claims she has received threats. She says these were received by people who "hold [TR] in great esteem" - so this is somehow supposed to implicate him. The presenter also makes this argument. She says she sees Tommy as a "brother" and he explains that according to Islam he is the "kaffir".
  • TR contrasts online insults with barbaric acts carried on in the street by Muslims against non-Muslims (some of which have been documented on this site). Indeed some Muslims have been leniently sentenced for such crimes because they were Muslim.
  • I thought I misheard that (this caller was making no sense). The presenter just claimed that Islam was "the first religion to enshrine the rights of women".
  • Tommy points out that the police recently let off several Muslims abusing white people at a bus stop (one of many cases). The presenter terminates the call at this point.
  • A caller says it is wrong for the EDL to be called the "English Defence League" and this means (he thinks) that therefore they are therefore "against anyone who is not English". Risible logic - I hope a nine year old would be able to do better than this. The caller also condemns the use of the English flag.
  • This same caller says a Muslim was attacked by white people in Dagenham. TR interjects that he was there at the time and this happened because the Muslim spat in a (white) woman's face. The caller had neglected to mention this detail but does not dispute it. Even the presenter has to back TR up on this.
  • The presenter seems to think it is okay for someone to love "the prophet" more than they love their own family.
  • Tommy says he is widely thanked in Luton for opposing the growth of Islam in the UK.
  • TR explains that 500 mosques have been identified as extreme.
  • Tommy mentions the death threats on Twitter again and the presenter just says "yeah, you retweet them".
  • I recall, incidentally, that TR has said that rank and file police, while bundling him into police vans in the past, have said they support him and regret what they're having to do.
  • TR points out that Islamic Centre has now been rebuilt (it has not been shown that the EDL were responsible for the fire).
  • Tommy says pupils in school should be taught the unvarnished truth about Islam. The presenter says he wasn't aware much Islamic history at all was taught in British schools (there are over 140 Islamic schools currently in the UK and that number is growing rapidly to meet demand).
  • This is an interesting part. Tommy asks the presenter if he is saying he should lie to his children and say Islam does not have a violent history. Presenter struggles.
  • Now we get to the part I quoted in the OP. The presenter says Gladstone and Churchill are "offensive".
  • The presenter now chastises Tommy for having Muslim friends despite Islam being obnoxious (not his word). He's trying anything. Tommy says he knows not every Muslim is violent but if they followed the Koran they would be.

There we go. I thought Tommy Robinson came across very well. No, more: he actually spoke as we wish our politicians would speak. He didn't stumble at all despite the BBC presenter's constant attempts to trip him up. It should be emphasised that not once did the presenter express any concern at all about the death of Lee Rigby, Islamic extremism or the constant death threats that Mr Robinson and his family receive. He was just keen to demonise again, with the power of the state broadcaster behind him.
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Elliott » 14 Jun 2013, 20:31

Staggering stuff, and I'm really impressed by how well TR is doing against these people ("against" because they are against him and doing everything to pillory him).

Presenter asks (get this) if it is not "Islamophobic" for TR to be critical of Islam.

Unbelievable, isn't it? So we're not allowed to be against X that is bad, because to be against X would be anti-X, and being anti something is presumably always wrong, regardless of whether the thing is bad.

The presenter says he does not want to get into a Koran discussion "because we don't have an imam here".

I thought that was very interesting. Who would ever say that we can't discuss the Bible "because we don't have a priest here"?

TR explains that Islam was spread through war and the presenter says this was defence. See the Ottoman Empire which spread to the Gates of Vienna.

This is an example of how Islam, as an element of history, really gets an easy ride. It is sheer nonsense to say that Islam has only ever acted peacefully or in self-defence, yet this claim is repeated ad nauseum by the MSM and never challenged.

A token caller let through says he was disgusted that TR was trying to show death threats on the TV and was shouted down. The presenter shouts him down and says they cannot discuss this other (BBC) programme.

Indeed, and I would have thought that discussing the British state broadcaster's treatment of an opponent of Islam would be a key part of discussing Islam in Britain.

TR says the BBC have an agenda and the presenter says this is simply to "challenge him robustly on his views". And only to challenge him, clearly, never to concede that any are valid.

Absolutely. They do nothing but challenge him, again and again and again. When they think they've "got" him, they dig further. When they think they haven't "got" him, they rapidly retreat and pretend their wrong-headed attack never happened.

The presenter just claimed that Islam was "the first religion to enshrine the rights of women".

2+2 = 5

Tommy points out that the police recently let off several Muslims abusing white people at a bus stop (one of many cases).

It wasn't merely "abusing" white people. They attacked them with baseball bats and one Muslim guy launched himself through the air at a white girl (so much for the enshrined rights of women).

A caller says it is wrong for the EDL to be called the "English Defence League" and this means (he thinks) that therefore they are therefore "against anyone who is not English". Risible logic - I hope a nine year old would be able to do better than this. The caller also condemns the use of the English flag.

This is an interesting (and very messy) consequence of multiculturalism. Essentially, the overall group, the host identity, can no longer be deployed for any meaningful purpose. Therefore, the host identity has become meaningless. If "England" cannot be spoken of as something that needs to be protected from a force hostile to it, then there is no such thing as England.

Tommy mentions the death threats on Twitter again and the presenter just says "yeah, you retweet them".

I noticed that, and the sarcastic, almost scathing tone of the presenter when he said it. TR should have demanded an explanation for that tone of voice. Does the presenter think TR shouldn't retweet the death threats against him? If so, why not? (But the presenter has no need to defend the obvious implication of his tone of voice. He's on the "correct" side of the debate and therefore above suspicion.)
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Re: Tommy Robinson on BBC Asian Network Radio

Postby Paul » 14 Jun 2013, 23:45

Fascinating stuff really. I haven't listened to it, I don't know if I could but thanks for the commentary.

It may be right to say TR is uneducated, by a certain standard (how old is he, and how many people his age are broadly uneducated anyway - despite compulsory schooling? This is a point TD often raises), but:

1. He's educated himself well enough about the cause(s) he's involved with and no doubt has a greater command of facts about Islam at his fingertips than maybe people have here, and most people in general.

2. He seems to have a very decent memory.

3. He's articulate enough. So he has an accent (not extreme) and maybe doesn't use high speech. So what - at this level? He actually sounds very sharp.

4. He isn't shrinking or a lightweight in public speaking.

(5. A wild card - wasn't Churchill dyslexic?)

I'd say TR is definitely bright enough, in what we might term a 'streetwise' level predominantly but he's certainly not a dimwit in general either. He would have been taken apart by now if that was the case, especially on these type of programmes. He's sharp enough, probably razor sharp actually, where it matters. I can imagine he has a decent broad general knowledge. He's probably one of these people who have actually improved after school - in the 'real world' as it were.

There's no doubt he has been (still is?) what we might call a 'likely lad' and will have done a bit of 'ducking and diving' in his time. I think he was foolish with the visa to America business, not least because he landed in prison but also it's a rod with which to beat his credibility. All the same, he seems to have coped with prison and emerged as determined as ever. It must have been stressful for him, not least because he has a family who were naturally left more vulnerable.

Following on from that, he must have some close protection and so must his family. A dimwit is unlikely to attract and maintain that kind of loyalty for long, if at all.

The type of character he is and the native wit he has is just the ticket for the troops, as it were. Maybe a bad word to use. The groundswell movement - the common people. He's an ideal spokesman who will gain (or should ..... or has gained) popular appeal. He's like one of the senior NCOs in a company. There are doubtless a few others but he comes across the best. The NCOs are the glue of any formation and the best ones work wonders. Take them out and the troops are lost.

No doubt all the sergeants are 'likely lads', may have been busted down a rank here and there and even spent a day or three in the glasshouse. But the ones that return are even tougher.

What we need soon are some good officers.

Edit: If I was TR, I would have also (attempted to) asked a question of my own, a fundamental one. I would have asked if the BBC was impartial, according to its charter and its remit. One would have to pick the moment for the best time to slip this question in, but there will be many good opportunities. One would prrobably be prohibited from asking questions though - only answering them. Like as if you were in the dock in court, under examination.
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