Islam in the UK

Islam is, for now, included under this topic

Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Elliott » 14 Jul 2012, 20:52

Here is Lib Dem Simon Hughes sucking up to an audience of Muslims.

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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 19 Jul 2012, 11:03

That is a shameful, pitiful speech by a "useful idiot". They do not seem to understand that they will be first against the wall if their wish for an Islamic UK comes true.

On another note, just what kind of a large employer would be be a natural home to the kind of person who would turn into a would-be Islamic terrorist? A place where their pro-Islamic views would be at home, never questioned, where they might even be able to be a security guard? Surely no such place could exist?
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 30 Jul 2012, 16:01

They're not allowing comments under this one on The Telegraph:


You'd think it was an April Fool, but this is the wrong month!
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Elliott » 31 Aug 2012, 00:42

Abu Hamza is not a very nice man. He "was jailed for seven years in 2006 for soliciting to murder and inciting racial hatred, and is currently facing extradition to the US to face terrorism charges".

But, as we all know, immigrants integrate over time, don't they? So even if the first generation cling to the ways of "the old country", their kids go to school with our kids, and becoming Westernised, and eventually we're all one big happy multicultural family!

Not in the case of the Hamzas.

Abu's son, Imran, has been convicted of armed robbery.

Imran Mostafa... denied robbery and possessing a firearm with intent to commit an indictable offence.

The jury at Norwich Crown Court today convicted him of both offences after more than five hours of deliberation.


His accomplices were named Jonathon Abdul, Ossama Hamed and Ahmed Ahmed.

Islam is the religion of peace and it enriches Britain.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 31 Aug 2012, 08:47

Elliott, what would you say to someone who said:

"It is only incidental that this armed robber is a Muslim. Many Muslims are not armed robbers and live peaceful lives. Actually this man is not a Muslim, or is a bad Muslim."


I'd say he probably wasn't a very observant Muslim, but still Islam encourages a parallel culture and is divisive. Also the Qur'an does clearly encourage hostility towards unbelievers, or "cattle" as former New Statesman Political Editor Mehdi Hasan said they should be regarded.

I would also say that when push comes to shove, as it probably will, "moderate" Muslims are likely to side with the more fundamental ones, because when the fundamentalists start producing the hundreds of lines of hatred from the Qur'an, the only alternative would be for the moderates to abandon Islam - and that's expressly forbidden.

Furthermore I would simply say that a culture has a right to remain itself, without the massive growth of another, in many ways contrary, culture in its midst. This is true whatever the culture may be, but especially when it is actually superior to the new one.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Rachel » 31 Aug 2012, 14:19

I'm still getting over that photo of the man. :)

I don't understand it. When my parents immigrated to Britain in 1972, they had to have an in depth interview in their home. That was just one of the very many stages of procedure they had to go through. Of course you needed to know English to go through the interview and be approved after that step. There was also a point where my Dad had to register at the local police station, even though he had done nothing wrong. I am not complaining about that. It was a common sense way of keeping tabs on people who were near the end of their legal residence in the country and applying for citizenship. My Dad did not mind either.
Don't these people go through that?
My Dad's employer had to make so many phonecalls and fill so many forms that at the end he said to my Dad "I won't employ a foreigner again." People said what they thought in 1972. My Dad didn't mind him saying that because he actually felt sorry for him having to go through all those efforts (which were difficult) and was grateful.

...And then I see a hook wielding , medieval savage full of hatred who got British citizenship. I don't understand it.
Abu Hamza's appearence is like a James Bond Satire of an extreme Muslim baddie, that is if James Bond was allowed to satire and critisise extreme Islam.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 11 Sep 2012, 16:05

On this day, an anniversary of when those Islamic terrorists murdered over two thousand people in the United States, it's interesting to note this story.

That pathetic broadcaster Channel 4 is happy to peddle trash into everybody's homes in the form of Big Brother and other rubbish, but when things get sticky with the Religion of Peace it's pulling programmes immediately. LBC evidently daren't take a single anti-Islam phone-in call either. This ideology has still got us where it wants us: cowed.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Elliott » 13 Sep 2012, 15:09

A few days ago, Channel 4 cancelled the screening of a documentary on Islam because of threats by Muslims against the presenter.

I wasn't going to mention it here, because I thought "well it's just the same old guff we've come to expect from Muslims, and the same old appeasement we've come to expect from the liberal media".

But now a wider context has emerged for the Islamic threats, and that wider context is the storming of the American embassies in Libya and now Yemen.

Of course, it may be said that the "protests" (storming of embassies) going on in far-off lands are not connected to the cancellation of a Channel 4 documentary. But I think they are. The connection is the religion and culture of the people involved. We are dealing with people who seem to be animated to violence at the drop of a hat. While they feel their religion is making headway, they are relatively peaceful - but as soon as the smallest slight is made against their religion, it's out with the "Behead those who insult Islam" placards - or, if they're in one of their own countries, it's out with the rocket-propelled grenades.

How can we possibly hope to live in harmony with these people?

The Rev. Peter Mullen has made an interesting (if fairly lukewarm) contribution to the debate. As usual, a member of the public made the point rather better in the comments section:

sosraboc wrote:These protesters around the Arab world are not terrorists. They are ordinary Muslims whipped up by radical preachers and politicians.

In all our inner cities there are plenty of ordinary Muslims who may well make similar protests given the right stimulus and don't kid yourself that it isn't possible in the UK.

Ask Rushdie how safe he feels. Ask a few British soldiers how they would feel about walking in uniform in certain parts of their own country.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Caleb » 14 Sep 2012, 02:58

The American response to this is going to be very interesting. On the one hand, they won't want to do anything that they would consider inflaming additional violence. On the other hand, if they don't put their foot down in some measurable way, there will be two reactions to that.

The first is that it will only reinforce the growing idea in the world that America is a paper tiger and this will have wider implications than just U.S.-Middle Eastern politics. If America won't stand up for its own embassies against a bunch of ragtag idiots, why would it stand up against Russia, China or even North Korea if they start throwing their weight around against third parties?

The second will be the domestic response. Someone on another forum pointed out that this could replay like Carter and Iran. Reagan was 20% behind in the polls, apparently, during the summer preceding the election. Obama looks pretty set to win relatively comfortably, but he could throw the election if he's perceived as soft on national security (and it is a national security issue, not a foreign affairs issue). The Republicans will eat him alive if he's not careful.

The conspiratorial part of me even wonders if all of this isn't part of a bigger long game. Is someone (perhaps pro-Islamist, but more likely anti-Islamist) trying to make Muslims overplay their hand to bring things to a head? Certainly, if I were a film maker trying to make a point about the idiotic and evil ideology of Islam, I might try to make them shoot themselves in the foot by overreacting. The guy who overreacts always ends up looking like the bad guy, even if he's justified in reacting (which I don't think these guys are). There's more than one way to skin a cat, after all.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 14 Sep 2012, 06:48

These people are so stupid. There just needs to be a rumour that an individual (not a representative of the US government!) might have made a video (which they have never seen) which might somehow "insult" the "prophet" Mohammed (how I am getting sick of that name) and that's enough for them all to go beserk and start killing people.

That, of course, cannot be stood for. We must be able to make whatever we want in our own countries and these people need to get a sense of humour or shut up. Islam doesn't seem to allow much humour - look at the recent debacle here in the UK when they tried to air this Citizen Khan comedy.

It's going to come to a head with these maniacs, that much seems clear. We need to keep nuclear weapons out of their hands at all costs and if Obama can't start showing some strength then whoever comes after him is going to have to do so. Obama's appeasement does not work well in the Arab mind. Bin Laden said it: "When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse".

This is very scary, this is a looming war, even in our own country as so many Islamists actually live here, and so many "moderates" will have to choose sides and will probably choose to join together with their fellow Muslims. But, we've had to fight them off before and it looks like we're going to have to do it again. There's only one set of religious believers currently making the world a nightmarish place to live and we all know, obviously, from which religion they come. It's going to have to be stopped in its tracks, it's just a matter of time.

Let's hope our underclass are not so indolent and unhealthy, and our middle class not so pampered, that they are prepared to stand up and fight for freedom as their ancestors did before.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Elliott » 14 Sep 2012, 10:14

Gavin wrote:This is very scary, this is a looming war, even in our own country as so many Islamists actually live here, and so many "moderates" will have to choose sides and will probably choose to join together with their fellow Muslims.


Absolutely, Gavin. These aren't quite the sort who will preserve Western civilisation:

Image
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 15 Sep 2012, 09:09

I'm surprised Ann Barnhardt's Qur'an burning didn't send the Muslims beserk too. It seems quite random as to what hits a flashpoint, or comes to their attention, and what doesn't.

I can't even find the video that has got them so worked up recently though, and I doubt more then five of them have seen it either.

Something can be in bad taste but it does obviously not justify murder, especially of someone who had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Liberals are so quiet on this matter - I suppose it's the usual conflict we see in their minds when it comes to Islam on homosexuality or feminism: for them, Islam trumps everything. I assume this is because most of its adherents have darker skin - which makes them racist too, when you think about it.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 15 Sep 2012, 16:00

Apparently this is the video in question. Totally laughable! It looks like a school play or a third rate American soap opera. Surely only a seriously deranged person or a professional movie director could possibly be so deeply offended by this. At least The Life of Brian was done well.

I wonder what these Muslims make of proper critiques of Islam such as those involving Robert Spencer. They don't seem to be able to understand those. Apparently only the very simple and crude productions like this are intelligible to them, if they see them at all.
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Damo » 15 Sep 2012, 16:43

I read in Oriana Fallaci's The Force of Reason, that it's ok for a muslim man to have sex with a sheep providing he doesn't eat it afterwards!

Mark Steyn mentions it here: http://www.steynonline.com/1516/the-shagged-sheep
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Re: Islam in the UK

Postby Gavin » 15 Sep 2012, 17:08

I wasn't aware of that pronouncement by Ayatollah Khomeini, but that kind of weirdness hardly surprised me.

I have Ms Fallaci's book too - it had to come from abroad in hardback. I bought that quite early on a few years ago when I was just becoming interested in these topics due to the amount of crazy things going on. That was one angry woman - it seems like many Muslims hated her!
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