Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Islam is, for now, included under this topic

Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Elliott » 15 Dec 2012, 22:07

I often read the public opinion threads below articles about multiculturalism and mass immigration. Right now there is an explosion of articles about these issues, because of the newly-released 2011 census data, especially the fact that white Britons are no longer the majority in their capital city.

Some of the comments in these opinion threads are good and say something fresh while many others repeat familiar views and phrases. I expect that they will not have the emotional impact for people abroad that they have for me and other Britons.

Nevertheless, they are "records" (to use a rather grand term) of a population that is seeing its country slowly disappear under a wave of demographic and cultural transformation. (There is now no doubt that this is happening, so it is not a matter of opinion.) Given the context, these comments might one day be interesting to historians.

At any rate, I think some of them (and any sample would be tiny compared to the total) should be preserved. The Disqus comment system is, in my view, pretty bad; a good comment will only get rated highly if it is one of the earliest, else few people will read it and it will stay lost on page 18. I also don't know about the long-term fates of Disqus threads; maybe they will be quietly wiped to save some disk space.

So I am going to use this thread to preserve assorted public comments about multiculturalism and mass immigration. (I may start similar threads on other topics.) Each post will contain comments from one article, which will be linked at the beginning. I will correct grammar, spelling and punctuation to the best of my ability. I make no guarantees about the veracity of included comments, although where possible I will link to online material about something that is referenced.

One final note, which is very important. I, and this forum, do not necessarily endorse or agree with any of the views expressed in these comments. They are collected here purely to represent points-of-view with which I, personally, broadly sympathise. The selection will be biased in the anti-MC direction, but occasionally I will include some pro-MC comments and reply to them.

ED WEST: New Labour's immigration revolution has transformed England, and not entirely for the better (12th Dec 2012)

Officer Dibble wrote:Something is wrong with a city when the architecture, the buildings, the statues, the whole ambience and character of the place built up over centuries, suddenly has nothing to do with the population that live in it. And that is what has happened to London. It is utterly bizarre for anyone visiting - the place is like a theme park. You can spend all day wandering around, wondering where the English have gone. Like Napoleon wondering where the Russian Army was hiding when he entered Moscow.

The population live, walk past and around buildings, landmarks and objects they have absolutely no connection to or understanding of. For the moment they think they're in Disneyland.

Eventually they will have the confidence to rip it all down.

Deacon wrote:It doesn't take much to destroy cultural homogeneity: swapping 1 in 20 familiar faces for a stranger will start the process.

New Labour have managed it in less than a decade, in exchange for votes - a few short paltry years of personal power.

I suspect many people literally choke with rage when they think of it.

Petra Thompson wrote:I have lived in London for 30 years. When I moved into my current street, almost every house was occupied by white English people who had been born in the area. Now the only white English people here are OAPs waiting to die (their words).

When a parcel is delivered for me and I'm out, it will get delivered four doors away from me. That is the first house where the people speak English. None of the others have enough English to understand "was my post delivered here".

I'm looking at moving out, since my post-woman started wearing a burka to deliver mail.

Petra Thompson wrote:There is a far, far worse Sharia party in the UK than Respect. It is called Hizb ut Tahrir. And when Cameron said in 2005 that Islamic extremists were Nazis, he had them in mind.

Hizb ut Tahrir has been around for 25 years, and both Labour and Tories have promised to ban it, but never have. HuT have been able to get 10,000 Islamo-Nazis at their conferences, drawn from a population that is less than 5% of the total population.

HuT believe in having a pan-national Islamic dictatorship, where non-Muslims are third class citizens, where non-Muslims are also subject to Sharia law, where the whole economy would be geared towards war, where homosexuals and adulterers would be executed, etc. If HuT could get 10,000 Muslims at a conference in 2002, how many will they be able to get in 2050? I doubt the BNP ever had more than 200 people at their biggest conference.

Stedman Dantes wrote:[Multiculturalism affords us] Culinary benefits, apparently. Except this isn't even true. If you go to, say, Windsor, you'll find every manner of cuisine available to you, as has been the case for as long as I've been visiting the place.

Go to Hounslow, which has supposedly been enriched and is now benefiting from diversity etc., and you'll find plenty of places to buy kebabs, fried chicken and burgers, but woe befall anyone who wants a decent paella.

Stedman Dantes wrote:God, Kingston is one of my old stomping grounds. I didn't realise Kingston had also gone. 20 or 30 years ago you might have accepted that bits of London and bits of Birmingham weren't ours anymore, and thought "fair enough". But you'd have been amazed if someone said Kingston would go. Death to Blair.

Let's Go Right wrote:I absolutely agree that we are unlikely to remain liberal. Many British Muslims, for instance, are actually deeply conservative, and their children are even more so. They are starting to find a political voice and when they begin to form their own parties, Labour will no longer be the recipient of their votes.

Amicus wrote:An atrocity practiced by government against its own people. Wicked beyond belief.

Jim Beam wrote:The notion of immigration breaking down psychological barriers is laughable. London has become a dark and frightening place. I would not want to walk most of its streets in broad daylight never mind at night.

Seeing old pictures of Londoners celebrating VE Day or the Queen's Coronation fills me with sadness. These honest, decent, patriotic people no longer exist in any meaningful numbers. They have been replaced and their communities have been transformed into little Islamabads and little Mogadishus.

Anyone who suggests that this change is a positive development is either an anti-white racist, disingenuous, or downright dishonest.

The figures are incredible. 55% of the population of our capital city are, not just foreign, but the dregs of the Earth. Pakistanis, Nigerians and Somalians have no culture that I wish to share, embrace or celebrate. They bring nothing but backwardness and ignorance.

Britain is fast approaching the point of no return. Immigration at current rates and increased birth rates among minorities will see Britain become a white minority nation within a few decades. Very soon they will hold the sway in elections like minorities do in America. Britain is no longer our country. Our children's birthright hasn't been sold out, it has been given away for free.

Lorrinet wrote:I have an old photograph of my great-grandmother as a young mother, holding a street party in Bermondsey for the King's birthday, my three-year-old grandmother sitting happily with all the other children from the street.

I find this a very poignant picture, more so because when my mother and aunt tried to visit the street about 15 years ago they were unable to enter the area because it was too dangerous. They were shocked at the changes and a few tears were shed.

About a year ago, this person gave a fuller description of what happened when their relatives went to visit the street. They were chased away by Muslims who threw bottles at their car.

Geoff Piggott wrote:Only European peoples have had the intelligence to defeat disease and poverty. Why do you want to replace us with Africans and Asians?

Truly DISQUSted wrote:But Labour never wanted responsible immigration.

Responsible immigration i.e. restricted to professionals who have scarce skills also tend to well-paid and self-sufficient and don't in general vote Labour en masse.

Mass immigration of the type we've seen was nothing less than importing the next wave of eternally poor to ensure Labour always have a pool of desperate voters.

I hope someone in the media points this out to all the struggling Brits in the weeks running up to the 2015 GE.

Dan Dann wrote:Sorry Ed, but New Labour's mass immigration policy turned many parts of Britain into Third World crime-infested s**t-holes. We have imported thousands of ethnically-segregated communities with no intention of integrating which is only leading to an increase in local tensions. Take London for example - okay, so it's never been free of crime that's for sure and immigrants have always been lured to the capital for work etc. - but today most people see London as a crime-ridden cesspool of imported beggars, rapists, cash-machine scammers and drug gangs. I once heard someone on the BBC describe London as a modern "vibrant" multicultural society. Don't make me laugh, vibrant? Maybe for the imported criminal the opportunities are endless, but for the rest of us London is a multicultural segregated s**t-hole - and we can all thank Blair for doing what Hitler's Luftwaffe could never do: destroy it.

Officer Dibble wrote:"because immigrants overwhelmingly vote for the Left, [leftists] assume [immigration] can only make the country more liberal."

Muslim immigrants are, of course, deeply illiberal.

Even Afro-Caribbeans and Africans are more likely to be Christian and fiercely oppose liberal policies like gay marriage.

The Left is living in a dream land - the immigrants vote Labour because they want the never-ending stream of benefits to continue to flow and they want lax immigration restrictions so their families can join them in the land of milk and honey. No other reasons. In the countries they have just left, they are deeply conservative.

Bacon Lover wrote:What, exactly, are the cultural benefits of white Britons being a minority in their own capital city? Go on, name one.

Bill Middle England wrote:We are not diverse but divided.

This is an English issue. Why?

Because the English rarely vote Labour as their main Party and persistently don't want the EU.

New Labour's answer was to ethnically cleanse England of English citizens loyal to the English culture.

We are being out-bred, courtesy of Tony Blair first and then his biggest fan, David Cameron. What complete traitors to the English are the LibLabCon cartel of slimeballs.

As soon as major trouble begins, you can bet our MPs will be jetting off to their offshore havens, and leave us to it!

Jeffersonian wrote:"London is, all things considered, a pretty amazing achievement: a city where anyone can walk down the street holding hands with whoever they want."

Dear Ed, which parallel universe London are you talking about?

Try that with the "wrong" person, particularly in the Islamic Republic of Tower Hamlets, or south Camden (a.k.a. little Mogadishu) and you're courting disaster and serious personal injury.

Weyland wrote:Just 70 years ago Churchill told Britons to fight for the British race, ancient homeland and culture. Now politicians tell us to "celebrate" the destruction of all those things.

Andrew McNeilis wrote:I am a white man with thirty-one years paying tax. Ex-army and professional worker. I love and live in the East End [of London].

I have a one year-old. My local primary schools have the following staggering statistics...

1. number of pupils who do not use English as their first language: 99.4%

2. free (tax-payer funded) school dinners: 46%

I did not vote for this, nor did I deserve it, and I do not believe the Tories care.

Cross Cop wrote:The Left remind me of the Jack Nicholson character in Mars Attacks!, still whining "Why can't we all just get along?" as the Martians obliterate him.

Jack Smith wrote:The entire post WW2 mass immigration phenomenon has been a disaster; a veritable crime against humanity as far as the native population is concerned.

Every single immigrant who has arrived from the Third World since the Windrush onwards should not be here and neither should their offspring. Obviously.

This is our country. The bones of our ancestors lie in the soil. We did not give our permission for this, so we should not have to share it with unwelcome and uninvited hordes. We should not have to accept walking down the street and feeling alienated in the streets where we once played as children. For us, there are no benefits of mass migration, no plus side, no compensations for having our homeland invaded. Invaded by vast numbers of belligerent, burdensome, atavistic interlopers with no useful skills or attractive qualities; who simultaneously hate us and parasitise our society. Repatriation is the only answer.

Jack Smith wrote:So because some idiot trade unionists got drunk with power and commerce was at times interrupted; because Britons were often naturally reserved and understated in their patriotism; because everything in our society may not have been perfect - this means that we deserved to be overrun? To have our customs and traditions undermined, our safety compromised and our futures jeopardised?

What about women who wear revealing outfits? Do they deserve to be raped?

Eddie of the Island wrote:"Blair is the biggest traitor in British history and should be dealt with as such."

I think he will be. Can you even begin to number the people who would kill him if they were alone with him in a room? A few million worldwide would be my guess and a surprisingly large number would be from the UK.

Elliott Harrow wrote:For years the British public has been force-fed the myth that immigration is a cultural and economic benefit, and this may well be the case with managed immigration when skilled and educated migrants fill job vacancies, and, while retaining recognition of their own heritage, integrate with the host society. But this has NOT been the case with the uncontrolled, mass immigration of the past 20 years.

The major difference between America, which has thrived on immigration, and the UK which is in danger of being destroyed by it, is that migrants to the US have pursued “the American dream” of self-reliance and of becoming first and foremost US citizens while those coming to the UK have been fed the myth of multiculturalism, encouraging them to believe they can enjoy all the advantages of living in an advanced, Western democratic, welfare state, while retaining unchanged and unchallenged the customs, culture and allegiances of the countries they've left.

Those who have gone to America have been obliged to adopt a culture of self-dependency which views welfare, except in extreme cases, as fundamentally detrimental to the US work ethic with social services like medical care the responsibility of the individual not the state.

Hardly surprising therefore the UK tends to attract a different sort of immigrant. For those from Third World countries, free education, the NHS, social housing, child benefits and all the other welfare entitlements available in the UK must seem like heaven. To achieve the American dream immigrants had to work for it. For those coming to the UK it is delivered gift-wrapped. Beveridge's “cradle to the grave” welfareism, designed for the indigenous UK population, is now available for anyone who can make it to these shores.

Encouraged by the flawed myth of multiculturalism many immigrants groups have been encouraged to develop separate ghetto societies outside and often antagonistic towards the mainstream culture. Those on the liberal-left in their efforts to produce a cultural revolution in the UK similar to that pursued by the Red Guards in China whose stated aim was to destroy what they described as the “four olds” – old customs, culture, habits and ideas - have deliberately sidelined and denigrated the host culture in order to accommodate those of immigrants. And without any mandate or consensus from the majority population they will achieve this now through the significantly higher immigrant birth rates that already account for a quarter of the current UK population growth.

But at what price? Government social surveys on everything from use of the NHS to prison populations and gun, knife and sex crime statistics – particularly in London - show immigration has in fact contributed to a net increase in crime, unemployment, disease, ignorance (in educational terms) and poverty. And that is no myth.

The disastrous results of the Red Guards' revolution in China could always be corrected as they only affected the indigenous population. Not so the far greater changes Britain is already experiencing and will increasingly experience in the years ahead.

The other dishonest myth that has been used to justify this “revolution” is that throughout its history Britain has continually accommodated waves of new immigrants. This is yet another lie by the liberal-left. In fact apart from the early movement of (mainly Anglo-Saxon) European tribes which affected the whole continent in the early centuries of the first millennium, plus the arrival of some 300,000 Huguenots from France at the turn of the 17th and 18th centuries, and a similar number of Jews, mainly from Russia, at the start of the 19th century, the demographic record attests that since the Norman invasion the population of the British Isles remained virtually settled and ethnically unchanged for almost a thousand years until the arrival of the Empire Windrush in 1948.

What remained true for centuries if not millennia has been overturned in decades, and it will have been brought about by the arrogant, myopic, self-deluded fantasies of those on the liberal-left whose Alice in Wonderland politics appear to be based solely on a masochistic, self-flagellating liberal guilt over the perceived evils of Britain's colonial past and the supposed racism on which it was allegedly based.

It must surely rate as the biggest peace-time betrayal of any indigenous population of any country in modern history.

Epiman wrote:One of the three principal responsibilities of government is to protect the nation's boundaries. Failure to do so is gross dereliction, and to set out deliberately to subvert those boundaries in order to change the national demographic is obviously treachery, which at any other time in history would be punishable by execution.

Klingon off the Starboard Bow wrote:The Labour elite are utter scum who carried out an unmandated mass immigration policy purely for their own political ends.

The problem with our democracy is that there is in fact no accountability. None for this moronic immigration policy which means housing is now so short that half the green belt has to be built over. None for the massive con trick perpetrated on the British people with the Lisbon Treaty, which Labour signed and thus allowed the EU to spend SIX BILLION EUROS on the moronic EU Diplomatic service.

Without accountability, you might as well live in a dictatorship. But the voters are moronic, too. Rotherham voted Labour again despite the fact that the party has ruined Britain, that their MP was a crook and that their Social Services Department was infested with fascist lunatics.

Hard to find any optimism in all this farrago of immorality and lies.

Fiona JC wrote:Diversity?

Look from the other end of the telescope and discover we are the dumping ground for all the other countries' rejects.

Quality people? No, not at all, not when I walk down any street in London.

They don't integrate as in the past, they want the UK to become like the country that rejected them.

In the 1970s I felt safe in Lewisham, Deptford and New Cross. Now I won't go to most parts of London, Birmingham, Luton etc. I am now living in a British ghetto called a rural town, and some of my close friends are different colours too. They have lived as British, some for generations - funny they feel as alienated as I do.

Spencer is Right wrote:Journalists have to go through the preamble of listing all the reasons why immigration is wonderful before they get to the important bit - why it's so terrible.

lrb1 wrote:I would like treasonous liberals like Ed West and every single Labour/Lib Dem supporter to sign a contract stating that neither they nor their children will emigrate from the UK, no matter how bad it gets, how unrecognizable it becomes, how poor we become as a nation or for any other result of open-door immigration and ultra-liberalism.

I have met dozens of ex-pats who voted Labour and LibDem but who have moved overseas so as to give their children a "better life", but only after colluding with Bliar and his cohorts in destroying this country.

I pity the countries like New Zealand, Australia and Canada who have these fifth columnists entering their countries and who will spread their ultra-liberal creed like a cancer and then move on again in a couple of generations when they have ruined another country.

Ricay Boy wrote:I am a young Englishman and I don't want "diversity". This is something that we were never consulted on. Every indigenous people deserves a homeland and mine is being given away to people who are just using it for their own ends. I hate what they've done to my England and it will only get worse. The trouble with "diversity" is that there is never an upper limit. I can look forward to my little girl being a foreigner in her own country.

Joe Strummer wrote:The tsunami of unwanted mass immigration into the UK or to give it its real name, invasion, has no benefits at all. That the indigenous people of our nation's capital have now been displaced, replaced and ethnically-cleansed should ensure that any British Prime Minister with even a trace of honour or dignity would resign, but he won't. This must be one of the saddest days in British history.

Sans Long wrote:I do have to laugh at this apologist article, from someone who has actually taken the trouble to write a book on the danger of mass immigration. If this is the best we can do, the war is already lost. The problem is it's not over. We are only this far down the line and have seen at least a 10% shift in the demographics. What will it be like in another 10 years... or 30 years?

Albatross 3 wrote:How many street robberies, rapes and burglaries need to be committed by immigrants before we are allowed to stop "celebrating diversity"?

Petra Thompson wrote:"a city where anyone can walk down the street holding hands with whoever they want."

What a load of rubbish. In the 1990s Tower Hamlets had over twenty gay bars and clubs. Now it has three. There are virtually no gay people left in that borough.

You try walking hand in hand with another man, and you will be attacked before you've gone a few hundred metres. It wasn't declared a gay-free zone by Muslims for no reason.

Blobby 2010 wrote:Well our so-called elected representatives had better get down on their knees and pray that this crass piece of social engineering works because the likelihood is that this will end in inter-communal violence.

Look across the sea at Northern Ireland and even now after God knows how many years, despite all the empty rhetoric about reconciliation, parts of the community are still basically at war with each other.

We now play host to one of the fastest growing, aggressive, intolerant and misogynistic faiths in the world. And the biggest irony of all is that to keep the peace the host nation has to tolerate attitudes towards women, gay people, and the slaughter of animals that we have been told for years are wrong and in some cases unlawful. Well! Which is it? Wrong for me but right for them?

What Labour did was beyond stupid: it was criminal. And please spare us the London-centric "we are cool with diversity" crap.

If the mass looting and lawlessness that stretched on for days is the product of your diverse liberal paradise then I don't want it anywhere near me or my family.

Stop letting the politicians and opinion-formers guilt trip you into thinking you are racists just for having real and genuine worries about what is happening.

These people live in areas whose only experience of diversity is the Filipino nanny who does the sh**ty jobs they can't be bothered to do themselves.

Geoff Piggott wrote:The following comment was removed by the moderator. So I will re-post it without the html, and we'll see if it survives on the page (HTML seems not to be welcome to DISQUS).

Ed writes: "a society that breaks down the barriers feels nicer"

No it doesn't. You never knew an English England but I did, and it was beautiful.

"London is ... a pretty amazing achievement: a city where anyone can walk down the street holding hands with whoever they want."

Race-mixing is one of the three modes of replacement (the other two being ongoing growth of the immigrant populations and displacement of the indigenous abroad). Do you want London to be turned into a northern version of Sao Paolo? Do you want an average IQ of 90, and vast, dangerous, run-down areas where Africans live? Is that "pretty amazing" for you? Because that's the London (and the Birmingham and Manchester) the political class is creating.

"[Liberalism is] that environment which has made England, and in particular London, so open to the world."

Liberalism is not responsible for London's greatness. London was great - and open to the world - throughout the age of Empire. It never meant the world has to come to live in it. Multiracialising your living space is simply insane.

Furthermore, liberalism in the louche sense you present it is not a healthy politic but the sort of decadent and degraded one that sometimes follows periods of success.

"The Left likes “diversity” because it hates racism"

The left is mentally-ill en masse and traitorous. It is also incapable of defending its own worldview. If you debate liberals as I do you quickly learn that they have to resort to smear and censorship because they have absolutely no positive argument for the disaster they keep pressing upon us.

"what I suspect (and perhaps fear) is that this demographic experiment our leaders have embarked upon (without asking whether or not we wanted it) is going to make us less liberal"

Ed, liberalism is not our ultimate interest. The continuity of our people is our ultimate interest. This is how human life is, and it is so for unanswerable, evolutionary reasons. If you don't know that then learn.

And if you don't really know what liberalism is, learn that too.

Beast in Black wrote:I remember that "happiness" survey recently done.

I superimposed both maps of Britain and the happiest regions were virtually on top of the ones that were mostly "white British". They matched almost perfectly. Coincidence?

Search Light wrote:I was thinking the other day about when unknown tribes are discovered in some remote region of the world and how people immediately call for their way of life and culture to be protected and shielded and kept in a time-lock free from any outside influence.

Funny that, isn't it?

Arnie 8888 wrote:This country has been poisoned by Labour. There are so many immigrants in this country I barely recognise that this is ENGLAND and not Saudi Arabia or India! The fact that only 44% of people in London are white shows that we are losing our culture, heritage and our quintessential British accent and attitude. I can't understand half the doctors and dentists I go to because their English is so poor or because of their thick foreign accents. It has got to the point where everything these days is deemed racist, which is totally stupid and childish. Simply calling someone black is not racist; people these days seem to think that it is. I'm so angry with these results from the census it makes my blood boil. I can't get my head around why anyone in their right mind would vote Labour; unless you're an immigrant of course...

Blade Bone wrote:Stop immigration, start repatriation.

Failure to do so will result in the white indigenous population becoming a minority in, what was once, our own country. Study Third World cesspits like Haiti, Pakistan, and Zimbabwe for what that entails for us and our offspring.

The process has already started in Britain and is there for all to see in towns like Oldham and Rochdale, and large parts of Birmingham, Hackney, Tower Hamlets etc. Coming to a street near you soon!

Heilan Lassie wrote:Surely it did not take a formal census to verify what was already known by everyone who grew up in Britain post-war and prior to the Blair Wizard Project to dilute the English race, undermine Christian traditions and values, install millions of imported alien cultures that further eradicate any traces of historical Britain except for the occasional London Games or Jubilee celebrations or another winner a Royal baby.

Life in many parts of England resembles reality TV where the masses are thrown the odd bit of a spectacular event that permits them to falsely be proud of their race, wave flags and participate in mass hysteria but only for a few hours or days!

They are then expected to retreat to their dull third class existences where their main function is to pay taxes and provide whatever gang of treasonous traitors sit in Westminster the right to steal their country, lifestyle and heritage and of course VOTE for them so the traitors can continue?

As an ex-pat who has watched the decline in Britain especially in England from either being there in person or catching up online it comes as no huge surprise that White British are now a minority in the country's capital... What an awful achievement. Nothing to be proud of is it?

However you have allowed this to happen and now you are supposed to be proud of diversity to the point that your own capital is no longer representative of indigenous English?

This is why I avoid London in particular which used to be a favourite, now it's unbearable. Why should tourists want to visit when they can go to other European cities that have not been swamped and suffocated by thousands of Third Worlders?

You did have a chance to change things politically but worried more about accusations of racism than your own reality and now it's too late.

Geoff Piggott wrote:Filling European lands with foreigners while denying Europeans their right to life and land, and even their collective existence, is a genocide process.

Lel wrote:This country DOES need a coalition Government, it needs UKIP in power and BNP in charge of immigration and given a free hand to do what is necessary. Only then will we stand a fighting chance of surviving as a nation and reversing the damage. Will we get it? Hell will freeze over first because of all the stupid brainwashing that has gone on (aided and abetted by the media I might add), so much so that people are terrified of doing the right thing for this country and its people. The writing is already on the wall. You only have to look at Bradford to see whites in the minority and the Asians voting in Galloway to further THEIR agenda.

One has to wonder, what will these immigrants do when they have turned this country into a clone of the Third World s**t-holes they have left? When there is no more NHS, free education, welfare benefits, will they up and leave, move onto greener pastures or stay here and wallow in it? Glad I won't be around to see it, but I fear for my granddaughters, I really do.

Bryan MJ wrote:Yesterday evening, on the Sky newspaper review plus the BBC, they wheeled in the usual socialists who banged on about London's mix meaning a celebration of diversity.

Never once was a white working-class person asked whether they also celebrated this diversity, because very few of us do. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have our country back.

Ricay Boy wrote:I used to live in South London and didn't feel like celebrating "diversity" when my wife and young baby were caught up in the London riots (funnily enough these are not remembered in Black History Month.) Or when I sat on a bus surrounded by a sea of foreign language speakers. Or when I walked the streets in fear of the teenage gangs.

Dribbler wrote:If I hear people speaking when I'm out and about, it's usually in Polish, Jafaican if I'm lucky enough to encounter a home-grown chav.

I think the numbers are far worse than we're being told. The census says there are 7 million foreign-born people living in the UK. I'd wager that means there are actually nearer 15 million.

And it's not racist to not like it. I couldn't give a monkey's what people look like, or their skin tone. It's about English people, and Englishness being replaced by something else.

Lord Lieutenant wrote:I welcome immigrants where they're able to contribute financially, educationally and socially.

I want to see a reversal of immigration for individuals or family groups who have arrived in the last 15 years and cost more than they contribute or don't bring any social or educational benefits.

It's absolutely no good rolling your eyes at past immigration mistakes like Keith Vaz without accepting that the only way to make this situation better is to return numbers of people back to their place-of-origin when they're found to be of detriment to this country and her people.

Want to position yourself in the working-class middle ground? The urban liberal middle-class would do well to realise just how isolated their opinions are outside the echo chamber of the global leftist dinner party.

Warlord wrote:Diversity kills. Just ask the Armenians, Kurds, Croats, Jews, Cossacks...

Morgoth wrote:Pretty much everybody except the Leftobots hate having their areas swamped by the Third World, but when it comes to talk of repatriating them many well-meaning and decent people wince at the thought. This is something that needs to be overcome and projected out into normal discussion.

Nobody wants to be the bad guy but if this idea is not made mainstream fast we will die out because of politeness.

I'm in my mid-thirties and my family have small children, I'm talking babies. And thus the choice is stark and brutal: the Third World leave or our babies, including a little blond girl, will grow up to be a powerless minority and easy prey to the most barbaric primitives the Earth has to offer.

We whites did not start this. It was imposed on us and we have no moral right to do nothing.

I believe Enoch Powell said something similar.

The Real PM wrote:[People] don't like what's happening but they're not yet willing to do anything about it because the action that is required offends their delicate sensibilities.

The problem is that they don't yet understand the real implications of this invasion and what it will mean for their children. That's largely because the media won't touch the subject with a barge-pole and pretend everything is sweetness and light. Only on the Internet can the truth easily be discovered, but you have to look for it. People would rather discuss football or celebrities than Islam because they are more comfortable with those subjects. We're asking them to step outside their comfort zones, which many people are always reluctant to do.

At the moment they still hope that "they" will sort things out and that everything will be all right in the end. They haven't yet realised that it's up to them; that "they" will never rectify a problem "they" created in the first place. If they want things to change they have to make them change, and that involves doing something more than just moaning about government policies at the pub but still keep voting for them at every election because "we don't want to let the other lot in".

The bottom line is that if England, or any Western country, is to survive into the next century in a form that our grandparents would still recognise, and if we wish to see our grandchildren live as free citizens rather than as slaves, then we have only two possible courses of action: we can expel the invaders or we can kill them. There is no third option no matter how much people might wish for one.

Offa of Mercia wrote:Christians are being persecuted in Britain.

The Left attacks Christianity constantly.

The Muslims who persecute gays, women, non-Muslims, etc. are pouring in.

It's right in front of us, but everyone is too afraid of these Leftists and Islamo-Fascists to say anything.

Muslim men beat and kill their women for dressing or living a Western lifestyle... happens all the damn time.

But just ignore it.

It's not like the Islamic faith in Britain is skyrocketing and the Christian faith is being washed away.

Faith ALWAYS defeats non faith. You atheists out there who think that you will keep a radical violent religion at bay are fooling yourselves. Once Muslims gain political power and more converts and immigrants vote... first Muslims will gain political power, then they will only do business with other Muslims, then once they gain power Islamic law will be the law of the land.

Britain will be like Iran: some Western influence, but radical Islam at its core.

Ossettian wrote:I was in Stamford (12 miles away) on market day recently.

Almost everybody was white, and I heard only a couple of Eastern European accents.

My own village is 99% white. Well, to the nearest whole percentage point I suspect it is 100% white. We have more Swedes than Third Worlders.

My doctor's practice is based in Uppingham, where most of the older children from my village go to secondary school . Again, almost entirely white.

As is Market Harborough, 11 miles away.

I've been trying to think of anything any of these places lacks that could be supplied by large populations of Pakistanis, Somalis, Nigerians or Turks.

I haven't been able to come up with anything positive.

Perhaps I'm not being fair, as these are all "nice" places.

So what about Corby?

No, the same.

You must really have to hate England, the English and English culture to do what our political class have over the last few decades, and particularly since 1997.

Extinct EU wrote:We all know what cultural diversity did to the native Americans. In Britain today up to 50% of some animals are slaughtered for market without even being stunned to satisfy cultural sensitivities and this is what they call progress.

Frostfire wrote:"London is, all things considered, a pretty amazing achievement: a city where anyone can walk down the street holding hands with whoever they want."

That, Ed, is not true. Certain groups are extremely intolerant, their views about women (that's half the population remember) and homosexuals are antediluvian and completely out of kilter with the average English person. It is completely wrong to assume that "diversity" automatically brings about an open-minded population.

Fair Edgar wrote:Who was that Labour party politician from East London who was followed down the street by Muslim gangs and threatened for not wearing the veil and being too Western? She ended up complying with their threats. Not much tolerance there.

I Googled the above incident but was unable to find any record of it. If anybody knows what "Fair Edgar" was referring to, please let me know and I will include a link to it here. If, on the other hand, the story is apocryphal, please let me know and I will remove this comment.

Stephen Smythe-Jones wrote:Blair-Brown did to Britain, particularly England, what Clinton-Obama did and are doing to the US: turn a predominantly white, Christian, Protestant, well-educated nation espousing the virtues of Western civilization and culture into an immigrant squatters' camp of non-Christian, uneducated, non-English speaking peasants from Latin America, the Middle East, and South Asia, most of whom have no interest in becoming part of the host nation, other than to take whatever material benefits they can from it and give nothing back but higher crime and unemployment rates.

Lezenby 6 wrote:There's a reason that this political class tells the English people to be "tolerant": it's so that they can use your own tolerance to destroy you.

Rossco 1111 wrote:For me, it's the quaint little ethnic traits, such as Congolese children being executed on suspicion of witchcraft, that make London such a vibrant utopia.

ACS wrote:New Labour's immigration scam was one of the most outrageous acts of manipulation and deception in the history of this country.

Playing on the decency of the British people and threatening them with accusations of racism if they resisted, an immigration implosion equivalent to the entire population of Norway was imposed on this country. As the policy was not part of Labour's manifesto, arguably it was illegal.

Somewhere out there are some small-minded individuals from the Labour extreme left with massive chips on their shoulders who masterminded this operation as an expression of extreme left ideology.

There have already been reports that it was a deliberate operation to smash the identity of the United Kingdom as a revenge over the failure of Marxism.

Unfortunately, it has largely been successful and now we have to live with the consequences.

Theresa May is correctly pointing out today some of the many problems caused by uncontrolled unmanaged immigration.

If the press have nothing better to do, why not find out who they were and get them to admit openly what they were up to.

Simon Coulter wrote:Freedom of movement will always migrate the poor to the richer states - the corollary surely being that the rich in the latter will leave as the process of impoverishment accelerates.

Nation states by their very nature hindered freedom of movement, on the basis that those within them wanted their values and way of life to be protected. This has ended.

Ask yourself who has enabled something the people did not want to happen - would that be the Paid Political Class?- working to a supranational /global agenda - not that of the people who elect them.

Where and how did they get this agenda and why is it in essence concealed from us?

Lorrinet wrote:I've just switched Question Time off, in absolute despair at the comments of the Lefty pro-immigration panel - with the exception of Peter Hitchens - and the usual hand-picked PC audience.

What I heard which so upset me was the sound of a people applauding, willingly, blindly, partaking in their own national and cultural suicide. Will Self (that shameless Champagne Socialist with his children in private school) fills me with indescribable rage every time he opens his stupid, British-hating mouth. I have heard about what we did to, and stole from, the Black Man (never of course what they did to each other, or of the Islamic slave-trade), until I'm sick to my very bones. But only we, the British - and especially we English - are guilty, and the weight of this supposed guilt is supposed to crush us and our descendants until we no longer have the heart or the desire to exist as a people.

And it is OUR OWN who are doing this! It makes me weep for my children and grandchildren who, at this rate of demographic change, will eventually join the ranks of displaced people with no nation of their own, where once they had a green and pleasant and contented land to belong to.

What kind of punishment would be fit for the evil creatures who did this to us? Nothing that we could think of in our angriest and most savage of dreams could ever be enough.

Weyland wrote:The Left always bring up the Huguenots, as some sort of reason why we should have open door mass migration today, but the Huguenots who came to England were a tiny number - only about 20,000 spread over 200 years (on average about 100 per year) - and they were very similar culturally and racially with the same Protestant religion as the English. The Left are liars; Britain has never been a country of migrants.

Maria Kay wrote:We don't want to hear any more crap about ethnic restaurants. We know that they are an obsession of rare order for you upper-middle-class leftards, but it's an obsession that WE simply don't share.

I am beginning to think that leftards use the menus from ethnic restaurants as masturbatory aids. Either that, or as other people use prayer mats.

Truly Freethinker wrote:The whole point of being left-wing is to hate oneself.

Michel Foucault was a gay French Leftist whose writings criticised traditional Western values. He made many trips to San Francisco to spend his time having gay sex in sado-masochistic bath-houses.

When the Iranian Revolution occurred in 1979, Foucault was an enthusiastic supporter and wrote admiringly in praise of the Ayatollah Khomeini. His excitement at, and admiration of, the Islamic Revolution in Iran seems almost sexual in nature.

Quite what the Ayatollah would have made of Foucault's lifestyle of having casual gay sex with multiple partners, no-one ever found out. Foucault eventually died in 1984 from a strange new disease called AIDS...

Sheonah wrote:The Traffic Cops programme on BBC1 last night showed up clearly this wonderful "diversity". All the cops were white British, now an endangered species, and all the villains except one were from ethnic no-longer-minorities. It was mainly all about drugs. The most sickening bit was a young Caribbean-type thug attacking a police officer who was arresting him, watched by grinning adherents of the "religion of peace" who made no effort to assist the policeman but caught the scene on mobile phones. The most worrying bit involved a 12 year-old carrying drugs. His mother had gone off for a week, leaving him in the care of an "aunt" who didn't bother feeding the child, didn't really know him and didn't care what he was doing. Father of course was invisible.

Worth Saying wrote:In my lifetime (50), 3.5 million white people have fled London. About 600,000 white people have fled Birmingham. Even places like Leicester and Blackburn have seen 100,000 white people flee.

Gully wrote:I agree that the British people were complicit to an extent, but the worst that can be said is that we were gullible. When he first got in Blair said the magic word "change", but none of us realised that the change he was proposing would so undermine our sense of ourselves as a nation. By the time we started to wake up it was a done deal, and, because of the manipulation of the so-called liberals in collusion with cynical duplicitous governments, we found ourselves driven down a cul-de-sac.

The disrespect shown by politicians for the British electorate is breathtaking. The Church and religion itself (bar one, Islam, because we are scared of its propensity towards violence) have been sidelined in favour of the promotion of group politics, many of them increasingly hostile to those who think differently. These groups have no hesitation in using British law (once a source of pride to the decent British citizen because of its accessibility) as a weapon against us. As has been said here before - social engineering has become the new deity, and the fear instilled in us of being out of step with the official line has made the population frighteningly docile.

One of the few ways left for us is the freedom to speak our minds on blogs like these, but there is the familiar spectre on the horizon of government interference in this, too, in the guise of making us "safer". We must not allow this freedom to be undermined, too.
Posts: 1800
Joined: 31 Jul 2011, 22:32
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Elliott » 15 Dec 2012, 22:36

Another tranche of comments, but this time the article (and therefore the comments) comes not from the Daily Telegraph, but the BBC.

The article again relates to the 2011 census data, and in this case the comments are more focussed on the central fact that white Britons now constitute less than half the population of London.

The thread had nearly 1700 comments by the time it was locked. I haven't the time or the will to go through all 85 pages, so this selection was made by sorting the comments in various ways and reading through the first 10 pages of results each time. There are probably lots of good/interesting comments that I didn't see.

BBC: Census shows rise in foreign-born residents (11th Dec 2012)

Since the comments are by the BBC readership, there is a mix of pro and anti. Let's look at the anti comments first. These will not be very surprising to readers of this forum, but it is still worthwhile, I think, to record them for posterity.

Paleo wrote:Celebrate the mix of diversity they say!

No one speaks the same language
No one mixes together
No one has any work
No one has the same cultural life experiences to discuss
No one cares less about anyone else
No one respects anyone and digs their heals in about their own culture

Great mix eh! I never wanted this. Strange though, the politicians tell me I'm wrong I DO want this state of affairs.

David Pickles wrote:So, that's it then. The UK finished and swamped. And no, it's not racist to be very very concerned about this. Our countryside is under threat next because "we have to build" - and we know whom for.

This cesspit is close to collapse.

John wrote:Before this country turns into another Yugoslavia, take note politicians. We don't want quotas, we don't want limits; we want the most damaging aspect of social policy to befall this country completely reversed.

The End Is Nigh wrote:I sit in an office of around 15 people. Around me I see a few Poles, a Greek, a couple of Romanians, a German, a Canadian, a Sri Lankan, a Russian and a couple of second/third generation Asians. I am white English.

There's minority for you.

Space wrote:Serbia once had a lovely area called Kosovo in the south of its country. Lots of Albanians emigrated there and eventually outnumbered Serbians. Then the ethnic Albanians decided they didn't want that part of Serbia to be Serbia any more.

Now the ethnic Albanians pretty much have Kosovo to themselves as an independent country because they make up the majority of the population.

Food for thought.

Gammarus wrote:Well thank you so much Labour. This is why they are building thousands of new houses on all the greenbelt around my way.

Tony Blair's lot should all be tried for treason.

Chubby Pandas wrote:The Labour lovey-dovey years have crippled this country into a PC afraid vegetable, dribbling as we watch X-Factor on a Saturday. At least the EDL and others have a sense of direction. Most people are too afraid to even question what's happening.

Elliott Harrison wrote:Sadly, the country I grew up in is not the same country my children will grow up in.

Not racist, it's just a fact.

I don't remember voting and giving the politicians permission to do this.

Only allow foreigners to come here if they work and aren't taking jobs from the locals. This should apply whether they are white, red, black, brown or yellow.

Stuart Downie wrote:I have been able to vote since 1961 and not once has any mainstream party offered the electorate a chance to vote as to whether or not they wanted a multicultural society. Now we have it and heaven help anyone who dares to object. They would instantly be pilloried for being a racist whereas most simply don't like feeling that they are being swamped by alien cultures.

Martyn wrote:And these are the figures for legal immigration. Wonder how many illegal immigrants there are on top of these figures.

Working-Class Worker wrote:The last riots were a wake up call.

What is this "Diversity" mantra? The world is LESS diverse now - with patchworks of SEPARATE communities in every city in the world. It's boring. Black areas, Muslim areas, Chinese areas. All with KFCs and Pizza Huts! There is no mix, and at the same time less national identity. Birds of a feather flock together. Multiculturalism is a lie.

The Bloke wrote:The Tories set themselves the aim of lowering net immigration, and haven't got far in doing that.

And it's not enough. What's actually needed is mass repatriation of recent migrants, from the EU and elsewhere.

And the BBC needs to be in the firing line, too, for its biased commentary on this issue.

Expat KS wrote:Government policies over the years have always been tuned for grabbing votes and the last Labour Government has admitted publicly that it encouraged mass immigration to get votes, regardless of the cost to the people or the infrastructure problems. Politicians should hang their heads in shame for the destruction of UK. Muticulturalism is a joke, more like separate isolated communities.

Moz wrote:My dad and granddad fought and suffered injuries in wars to protect us from invasion (not from German nationalism as is the promoted myth). They would not have bothered if they had known their legacy would be a land fit for foreigners.

This invasion of our country must not be blamed upon the unfortunate migrants but on the politicians who have failed to protect us. "Globalisation" is no excuse.

Banned wrote:Before Labour came to power, race relations were in pretty good shape in the UK. Now we are on the road to self destruct, where any criticism of particular groups or policy provokes name-calling and in some cases violence. Political correctness served a purpose in the 1970s. Today it is the most dangerous and stupid ideology in the Western world - the BBC being one of its leading lights.

Virtual Purple Haze wrote:When a certain percentage of ethnic and religous doctrine is reached, the voice of the indigenous people will be lost or suppressed, because we will become a minority.

Also - sorry to say this, but the countries most of the immigrants come from are almost bankrupt and have massive social problems. This is another grave concern for the UK, as these problems will transfer to the UK.

Ichabod wrote:Why have we taken in a third of a million people from Nigeria, Pakistan and Bangladesh?

They are not in the EU and I'm not aware of any skill shortages for which these countries have vast numbers of excess talent.

Or was this just a part of Labour's deliberate plan to "rub the Tories' noses in multiculturalism"?

Boy, are we paying the price for that.

AshleyB9 wrote:If the Muslim community only makes up 4.7% of the population (as stated in the article above), how come this group appears to warrant so much time and effort in "appeasement" for so few people?!

Hampshire John wrote:This is being reported as surprising news. Most of us have known that huge changes have taken place but under the banner of "multiculturalism" (which we are told is a good thing, don't question it!), we are powerless to stop it or even to debate it without fear of being branded a raging racist. Future generations WILL reap the whirlwind.

Bradford wrote:And we cannot do a thing about it.

Government has made sure that the UK is attractive to immigrants - immediate access to housing and benefits for many, as many children as you like cared for, schooled and expenses paid.

No dissent from those who disagree because they are called racist and subject to increasingly harsh laws and imprisonment.

Soon 500,000 more Romanians and Bulgarians will join us!

The Man from Utopia wrote:It will only get worse. Some left-wing friends of mine were quite happy in multicultural London....right up until their eldest child started secondary school and they found out the school was more than 50% Muslim. Suddenly, living in "the sticks" seemed appealing to them.

Moggs wrote:Multiculturalism is a myth woven by successive governments. Immigrants prefer to live together in their own enclaves, to the complete exclusion of the indigenous population. The ONLY part of our culture they want to embrace is our benefits system.

Chip the Duck wrote:Why should I celebrate diversity?

Integration, yes. But diversity is the last thing we need - groups of people refusing to become part of society.

Dr Wibbly Pig wrote:When does immigration become colonisation? Will England (and it is, for the moment, England) still be the same country when its people are in a minority? Looking at other countries who have experienced this the answer is "no".

Raj wrote:Though I am of Asian descent, I despair at the current level of immigration. I recognise I am lucky to be here but this is a small island and we cannot accommodate more people especially the fanatical backward types who look for handouts while professing the wisdom of their religion. I wish politicians would realise that even people like me do not want any more immigration...

Honest to God wrote:If I am going too close (Editor please note) to being non-PC, do let me know. In my part of the world we have the pleasure of many Romanians of a Roma persuasion (is this OK?). There are houses made up of children as young as 3 or 4 up to the age of about 14 who are required to go begging in the West End. I thought we had eradicated such Fagin-like behavior long ago; well we are going backwards.

Honest to God wrote:Politicians are becoming increasingly irrelevant and strength of feeling is mounting about the way our culture is being decimated on the altar of political correctness.

Beam Me Up wrote:Reverse discrimination is how many of us look at the immigration situation (problem).

Streets of our childhood now unrecognisable. Business signs sit in windows but aren't in English. Some areas of our own cities, we don't go to any more - our friends/family have moved out.

We've been sold out.

Ted wrote:Typical "impartial" BBC editorial. Editorial pick = 7 comments. First 5 are broadly in favour of immigration (or not against it) but let's stick 2 comments with the opposite view AT THE BOTTOM just to make it look as if we are really an impartial news organisation (laughs very loudly). Loony left-wing Guardian-reading idiots!

Money Dude wrote:Multiculturalism is a sham. What we end up with is pockets of communities all over the country mixing with their own cultures.

Where we do have mixing, there are often tensions and strife.

I wish immingrants spoke English all the time if they want to live here. I wish they lived a British life with British culture and British traditions. They are in Britain now.

Money Dude wrote:It wouldn't be so bad if the immigrants weren't so religious. They get offended at the slightest little thing.

We British used to be so good at taking the "urine" out of everything and everybody. It was a national talent in the 1970s and 1980s.

It does a nation good to ridicule itself and others. It is healthy. What isn't healthy is the oppressive tendencies of a suffocating nanny state.

Connor De Public wrote:Japan, Switzerland, China, Russia, Bermuda, Australia and many other countries have strict immigration laws.

So are we calling all of them racists?

Swamp Puppet wrote:I have a friend who came from Japan to visit London. He last visited over 30 years ago. He asked me: "What happened? Where are all the English people?"

Owain wrote:And these are the people that answered the questions. Here in London there are thousands of households that are shared or people are renting only short-term and others where no one in the house speaks English, so it's highly likely that there are many many more people here from overseas than this suggests.

Diddley Pete wrote:My goodness, what a complete catastrophe. Glad I won't be around when the proverbial hits the fan within the next 50 years. Anyone who thinks this amount of diversity, with more kids being born to immigrant families, will end peacefully and harmoniously is living in dreamland. As resources and space get scarcer, you will find nationalistic tendencies growing.

Samuel Dalton wrote:Does anyone find it funny that all these rubbish comments saying 'immigration brings vibrancy' are getting like -15 rating. Oh yeah it's all well and good having a vibrant nation but not if no-one wants it!


Before we get to the pro mass immigration comments, here are some from people who are "on the fence", so to speak. I categorise them thus purely so as to be accurate.

Hill Street Blues wrote:Whether you are for or against, do you not think that we should have had a chance to vote on this?

Jay wrote:Okay, I'll be honest. Even as a left-winger who's open to immigration and diversity of race and religion, the idea that under half and possibly about a third in the next census of people living in London are white and British is slightly worrying. Diversity needs to be integrated and incorporated and I get the feeling we're going to end up more like divided America than integrated Brazil...

Dom wrote:Some quite startling statistics in this [census], with massive implications for the economy, housing, and health and social care sectors. Don't get me wrong; there are positives in this as well as the obvious negatives that will surely follow from the anti-foreigner brigade. On the whole, I welcome migration, as long as it is within the rules. It brings diversity, culture and a vibrancy to the country.

ONiell33 wrote:Past statistics do not count for future forecasts. Asian economies are rising... they'll all leave soon.

That one interested me greatly. I hope he's right. But I doubt it, unless these Asian economies have very generous welfare systems with which to tempt welfare claimants to come "back home".

Danensis wrote:As people become more aware of their backgrounds they begin to realise that no-one is really "White British", and reflect this on what they enter on the census.

I am not sure what Danensis is saying here. S/he could be on either side of the debate: a liberal decrying the notion of "a British people" (we're a nation of immigrants!), or a conservative decrying the notion of British identity in favour of English, Scottish and Welsh identities.


And now, comments from people who are pro mass immigration. I have to say there were noticeably fewer of these than anti comments. I shall respond to each one.

Johnny Leroux wrote:I'd say there's a 95% racist to 5% intelligent human split on this thread.

I thought it would be apposite to begin with a characteristically smug "framing the debate" comment from a typical self-satisfied liberal. Peace be upon you, Johnny.

Neon Andy wrote:Whether you like it or not matters little. Diversity of population - be it race, religion, lifestyle or culture - is a reality and ever more so. No going back. So broaden your horizons, educate yourself on other cultures, be tolerant. Expect the same of others. This is the best way to deal with it, or be prepared to live a frustrated, angry and belligerent life.

In a way, Andy is right about this. Being against multiculturalism in a multicultural country does indeed make you frustrated and angry. He's also right that the best way to deal with it is for everybody to broaden their horizons, educate themselves and be tolerant. But this is like pacifism and nuclear disarmament: it only works if everyone else does it. If you go ahead and the Other reneges, you are extremely vulnerable. In this case, the Other has a firm identity and you have only limp-wristed generosity. The Other has a determination to survive and conquer, and you have only a pathetic request to be tolerated if it isn't too much trouble etc. etc. etc.

I would also say that Andy's utopia (and it is a utopian vision) would be workable only in the short term. I don't believe that multicultural societies can survive indefinitely. People want identity, and sanctuary; nobody wants to be perpetually unsure about the people next door who have a million friends you're also unsure about. That is a recipe for stress, dysfunction and misery.

Alasdair wrote:Almost all of us are immigrants at some stage of our ancestry. Overwhelmingly, immigration is a net good for a country. Although the south-east of England is pretty densely populated, there are huge areas of the United Kingdom which are not as densely populated and where, in some cases, the population is falling. We need enlightened regional policies which encourage people to move to those areas.

The section I have bolded is particularly disgusting. Is there to be no place for white Britons to live free from Third Worlders? They have their ghettos - are we not to be allowed some small patch where only "our people" live? According to the Left, such a request is meaningless, because there is no such thing as "our people" - we're all immigrants!

CB27 wrote:We should be proud that we've been able to absorb so many people and that people still want to come to the UK. The last decade saw a sharp increase in immigration, probably because communication and travel became cheaper and accessible.

I can see two glaring points of naivety here. The first is the assumption that we have "absorbed" all these foreigners. Does the word "ghetto" mean nothing to this person? Does the phrase "Muslim paedophile ring" not suggest that, far from being "absorbed", many of these immigrants consider themselves very much apart from the native British?

The second point of naivety is CB27's explanation for the sharp increase in immigration. Let us overlook the dubious assertion that communication and travel became cheaper in the 2000s (I would have said the 1990s). We all know the real reason for so many Third Worlders coming here: the benefits system. According to the ONS, 50% of Muslim men and 75% of Muslim women are on the dole! I mean, I don't know how liberals can possibly regard that as a success story (unless by "success", they mean "guaranteed Labour voters").

Righteous Fury wrote:The only reason a small island with relatively few natural resources is so wealthy, is that it once interfered in 192 countries at its peak. That's why London is such a vibrant commercial junction in the world. Now descendants of those subject countries are turning up for a piece of the pie. We reap what we sow!! You can no complaints for being privileged because of your forefathers' deeds.

Arzanni wrote:Chickens coming home to roost, that's all. If you kept your snouts out of other men's countries in the past, mind you the wealth of which you used to build your "golden egg", maybe they wouldn't have to come here to recover some of their "wealth heritage" to repatriate. Good luck to them. As for the British, well, terminal decline I'm afraid. Living in the past.

Chartier wrote:For centuries Britain colonised the world, imposing our culture and our language. We cannot now legitimately squeal when the world comes here.

These three comments are interesting because they say that mass immigration is a fitting come-uppance, a fitting punishment, for Britain's imperial past, and therefore that it is a bad thing. After all, punishment is supposed to be unpleasant, not pleasant.

This is a question on which liberals want to have their cake and eat it. On the one hand, Britons apparently deserve to have their country invaded by the dregs of Empire through mass immigration. But on the other hand, mass immigration is apparently really great, happy-clappy, nice and fluffy. Which is it?!

The comments also ignore the fact that many of our immigrants hail from countries which were never part of the British Empire. These people have no reason to want to punish us "for your forefathers' deeds".

Fourthly, We could question the assertion that the British Empire was a bad thing that warrants punishment. Personally I think it was, overall, a very good thing. In fact I think the kindest thing we could do for Third World countries today is take them over again - but first, we would clearly have to sort out our own countries! And a good first step to achieving that would be ejecting Third World-derived people who will never fit into First World societies.

Barrichello Fan 01 wrote:I think people forget that traditional Britain is comprised of Norse (Viking), German/French (Anglo-Saxon) and Italian (Roman). We've always been a multicultural/multiracial society. Even the Royal Family has off-shore roots. They only changed their name to Windsor around WWI to appear "more British". Short memories we have.

This is just a variant on the "always been a nation of immigrants!" theme. Not worth discussing. I will only say that it is ludicrous to pretend that Norse, German, French and Italians would be as problematic to integrate as Somalians. To liken post-1948 immigration to anything preceding it is inherently fatuous.

Eoboy wrote:The test to prove whether you are racist or not is to imagine if the increase of immigration was all blonde-haired blue-eyed Australians. If that doesn't bother you, but another people do, you are quite clearly racist. Regards

Ah, where to begin... Without meaning to be boastful, I shall begin by declaring that I do pass the test: I am a racist! I would indeed much prefer blonde-haired blue-eyed Australians to, say, Somalians or Pakistanis. This is good news. It means I can differentiate between hazardous (unintelligent and aggressive) people who despise my nation and culture, and helpful (intelligent and civilised) people who would fit in very easily and not beat me up for being white, gang-rape my children, score badly in all academic fields and contribute nothing and reduce the average IQ in my country, terrorise my neighbourhood, sap all my tax money, impose barbaric 8th century laws on my street, turn me into a third class citizen who must pay them jizya, or transform my country into a duplicate of the Third World hellhole they came from.

I would like to thank Eoboy for supplying this test that has enabled me to prove my racist credentials. Do I get a prize, or is being sane its own reward?

Rebecca Riot wrote:This is very good news! It makes the UK a more interesting country to live in.

I welcome the diversity that other folk bring to the UK, and feel a deal safer on the streets.

She needs a lobotomy for sure, but in the meantime she gets even worse...

Rebecca Riot wrote:Perhaps under-the-bed racism is the reason for many of the negative remarks about foreign folk on here?

I have five different nationalities coming for Christmas, all young professionals, and none of us related. I can assure you this is much much better company than the grumpy relations, chips on shoulders, grumbling about God knows what. Very boring. I shall not bother with them.

So, Miss (although she could be married, but only to some emasculated hipster) Riot has taken to shunning her family in favour of spending Christmas with foreigners. Seems like an act of self-sacrifice to benefit her family. One turkey's enough, after all.

Racheinderbys wrote:As for the increasing mix in the population - get used to it. We will become more and more mixed and all the better for it.

The Levellers wrote:The fact is that immigration has been good for this country. It has made it a wonderfully diverse and multicultural country.

Mucky Doggy 1 wrote:Out come the racists and bigots who can't stand the results of a truly multicultural society. Get over it. We're one of the most diverse countries on earth and we reap far more advantages than disadvantages from this.

What are these "advantages" that liberals keep mentioning?! How is diversity "wonderful"? How are we "all the better for it"? Time and again, liberals just assert these things and they never, ever, explain them.

An interesting contrast between pro and anti MC comments is that the anti-MC comments make a lot of use of anecdotes, personal experiences and observations, whereas pro-MC comments are largely composed of buzzwords: vibrant, diverse, tolerance, wonderful, advantage, benefit, modern, mix. I would say a huge number of pro-MC comments are just nice notions thrown together with no attempt at argument, but a great reliance on the persuasive force of feelings. The rest are a mixture of veiled threats (such as Eoboy's, above) and wishful theory (such as Miknal's, below).

Miknal wrote:More population = more people to work and create wealth, more people to build houses, more people to pay taxes.

There is no such thing as a full-up nation, people.

Miknal seems to have a purely economic view of people as working units who do not require identity, security, kith and kin, etc. It is either blissful naivety, or a deliberate method to avoid seeing the whole of human nature. Something I've noticed about liberals is that they seem to have very little interest in human nature. And it's not just because human nature is too messy for their theories to cope with, it's because at some level they hate and fear human nature and want to defeat it by simply stomping all over it, pretending it doesn't exist.

Martin wrote:Immigration can be a benefit. It saved the USA from Mr Romney. Who knows what it will do to Mr Cameron.

Martin admits that immigration changes the political landscape of a country and prevents the natives getting the political leaders they want. Well done, Martin.

League Fan wrote:I can see all the "Little Englanders" and "Johnny Foreigner" types frothing at the mouth over this news along with all the rednecks, and ignorant bigots that pervade this country.

Surely it is a good thing that people can integrate and live together and get to know each other. It prevents a lot of conflict.

Muslim paedophile gangs...? Black criminals vastly more prolific than white criminals...? The 2011 riots...? The marked ghettoisation of specific areas with high concentrations of immigrants...?

What conflict has been prevented by having these people in the West?!

Honest Voice wrote:I'm not sure why people are complaining so much about immigration..
There are two types of immigrants:
1. from inside EU: anyone can walk in, claim benefits etc.
2. from outside EU: Only highly-skilled, young, high-earning people can come in. Point-based system. No benefits for first 5 years. Major contributors to tax.
What are people complaining about?

I really don't know what planet this person is living on. Does he seriously think that (2) is an accurate description of what's going on? Head in the sand.

Richard Storm wrote:White this, ethnic that... Who the hell cares? Only small-minded people. We live on ONE planet, and we are all ONE race. It should not matter where you are born. The world's population has always been fluid, and so it should be. If everyone stopped thinking about their own small country and thought more global, more problems would be solved. what we need is a world government, and no countries!

Benny Done It wrote:Great, bigger gene pool to choose from, evolve into, fantastic stuff for the world community. Now let's take down all borders and all have a big world party!

These two commenters appear to be utterly without loyalty to their own people. It's as if they think they owe nothing to their country, with its unique culture, laws, genetics, history, customs...

They also display that rather sinister love that some liberals have for an "ultimate government", an omnipotent government without limits, which would of course be benign.

Wanaitt wrote:Interesting isn't it when a billionaire monarch (paid by Civil List) and ruling under feudal systems announces a birth - people rejoice, even though the child will have great grandparents of foreign extraction. The bunting and the colourful mugs are sold. If a mere coloured pleb is born - oh no, not another addition to the UK's welfare benefits culture! Talk about hypocrisy!

This is another of the Left's "witty" rejoinders to opponents of immigration. It casts the Royal Family as a welfare family, on the basis that they are financed by the taxpayer. As is often the case with liberal arguments, it refuses to see distinctions, or that circumstances alter cases. To equate the Royal Family (unique) with some underclass family (one of countless such families) on the basis of their financing by the public is unspeakably blinkered and simplistic. Enough.

Golden Bear wrote:I am an "immigrant". Similar to immigrants from outside the EU, those of us from across the pond ARE NOT entitled to any state benefits.

I believe it's not the same with EU immigrants. I'm not sure. Someone will come along and advise.

A lot of the indigenous English are simply... prejudiced. This is because they are ignorant of true facts and merely regurgitate the brainwashing received.

I don't know what this person is talking about. There are hordes of immigrants coming from both inside and outside the EU and living on benefits. It is possible that the law puts up some token defence against this happening (I don't even know) but the reality is that millions of them are on benefits.

Michael wrote:I AM TRULY ASHAMED

I am white, and can trace my roots back for hundreds of years in this country.

I heartily welcome all who wish to come to this country in good faith, in need, or in fear.

I am ashamed of all of these racists and "nationalists" who are screaming loudly about immigration. We are all humans.

Except the racists. You're a bunch of sub cro-magnons, back to the caves.

I suspect that the most truthful part of this was the first seven words.

Tomas Stanger wrote:I really wish there wasn't so much emphasis on reporting of the rise of foreign-born people living in this country. It's only going to add to the rampant racism and xenophobia already in this country, and we can do without any more of that thank you very much!

So British people shouldn't get so much reporting on the fact that there are rising numbers of non-British people living in their country? No thanks.

Of course, the comment also displays the usual liberal refusal to acknowledge that racism cuts both ways. We have a great number of racist immigrants here. They're not hapless little teddy bears after all: many of them are vicious rapists and murderers of white women and children.

UK Student wrote:It is a simple fact that we will need more young immigrant workers to sustain our economy. We simply cannot function when we have so many elderly people to support and so few youths to do the work.

You can't just board up the country and expect old people to work till they die, and you cannot deny this is a serious issue.

An ageing population is certainly a problem, but we have millions of native unemployed so we clearly do not need immigrants.

Little Old Me wrote:35.LondonDave - "So for the first time EVER, White British are now the minority in London....."

You make that statement as if it is automatically a bad thing - if so you'll have no problem enlightening us as to why some areas of the country not having a white British majority is such a bad thing.....

I can guarantee that this person would have a very different response to a similar thing happening in a black/brown country. Then it would be a case of "evil colonialists robbing these people of their birthright, their homeland, their culture and heritage"... But when it's a white capital being over-run, he's all in favour. The contempt I feel for people like him...

Curiosity Killed the Cat wrote:Diversity can only be a good thing.

I love this comment, not just because of its hint of arbitrary prescription (as in "boxes can only be painted green") but also because of the person's name. It could hardly be more appropriate given the utter lack of curiosity about life that their comment suggests!

Duncan M 90 wrote:BBC: pick your language more carefully. "Rise in foreign-born" has a negative connotation. More positive language such as "UK population growing more diverse" would be pro-active.

This is a sinister comment, because of the slightly threatening "Ministry of Truth" tone but also because of the phrase "pro-active". By definition, something can only be pro-active in a particular direction. If you are pro-active, you have a goal in mind. So, what goal has Duncan in mind when he tells the BBC to pick their language more carefully and use positive terms? And surely a news organisation should be impartial, not pro-active in any direction with how it dispenses information?

Locki's Friend wrote:It is distressing to see so many negative comments over the increased diversity of the population of the UK. All countries benefit greatly by the increase in their horizons facilitated by immigration and by the general cultural enhancement that is resultant.

Oh dear - undergraduate verbiage alert.

Trowa 127 wrote:It is amazing how every pro-immigration comment gets voted down. The irony is that we are taught to hate migrants for coming and "taking our jobs" but in reality their productive labour creates wealth for all of us. The sooner we start treating people as individuals and seeing past some rubbish census segmentation the better.

But it's the respondents themselves who have implemented that segmentation by ticking boxes on the census form! It's not something that's been imposed on them from above - they're describing themselves. They are different! We are a segmented society! There is nothing to "see past".

Actually, this comment is very interesting because it displays the archetypal leftist belief in the state's ability to "segment" people; in other words, its ability to ascribe them their identity. This is fascinating because it shows how in awe leftists are of the state. Do people not choose their own identities? Do community, family and self not create identity? Apparently not: it can all be controlled by bureaucracy.

Trowa seems to think that people, left to their own devices, would not segment themselves but would instead bond together, and that human nature is inherently good and peaceful. I disagree.

Owen wrote:What's most worrying are the xenophobic comments that appear all over here. There still seem to be a lot of people stuck in the little-England past. The world is a multicultural place - get over it. Countries that succeed are those that welcome immigrants who contribute energy and diversity. If the UK closes itself off it condemns itself only to a slow decline.

That is just a succession of lies and baseless delusions.

Brap wrote:I didn't realise that this was the Daily Mail forum. Factual comments providing detailed information and reasoning make this an interesting topic for discussion. All the narrow-minded racism posing as "British values" is making my stomach turn.

David wrote:Just shows that, despite all the complaining and negativity, people still want to come here to make a better life. This is still a great place to live so let's celebrate it.

After you with the soma.

Chris wrote:If you read between the lines what you'll find is that a considerable number of people here are complaining about the "indigenous White British" people becoming a minority. Several have also said they don't mind European immigrants but don't want anybody from the Third World here. What does that tell you?

Chris appears to believe that all people are interchangeable, that genes and culture mean nothing. I disagree, and so does Islam.

Chris wrote:Yes look at how the descendants of Europeans in the United States, Australia and South America have adopted the "values" of the "indigenous" cultures.

It would have been unwise for them to do so: their own culture was superior to the indigenous in every case.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Gavin » 15 Dec 2012, 22:47

Thanks for these contributions, Elliott. They must certainly have taken a long time to format. I will take some time to read them. It seems like an elegy.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Gavin » 15 Dec 2012, 23:39

I have to be honest and say the earlier comments entirely ring true with my own impressions when I lived in London, and now when I visit London, which is as rarely as possible. I can only imagine that the later commenters have not spent much time in zone 2 or 3, or 4. Or 1.

I'm starting to get really angry about this situation, because frankly it is the main reason why I dare not have children in the UK. I am now in almost no doubt that we have a civil war coming in this country and now is the time to start preparing in any way possible - build up, keep fit, make money, save money, try to survive.

A civilised country was built here. Now we seem to be witnessing it coming undone.

They might shut down The Telegraph comments, they might shut down this site. If they do, I have its entire contents and everyone's address and I will let you all know. For anyone living abroad though, this certainly does let you know the feeling in the UK - from those who dare to comment.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Nathan » 16 Dec 2012, 00:18

Elliott, have you ever thought about getting into politics? Thanks ever so much for doing this - I have been reading the comments with interest but missed some of the ones you posted. The census figures, plus the demographic trends broken down by age group (which I would love to see figures for) often make me angry enough that I find trouble in going about everyday life too - I do plan to leave London next year as the effect of living here, even in one of the few predominantly English neighbourhoods, is just not healthy but I am too tied down here at the moment.

It seems the scale of the problem is so much we can't vote it away. Looking ahead we have two choices:
1. Either accept that our country (and it is not just ours, but most of western Europe too) will almost certainly become poorer, less trusting, less cohesive, more violent and all the rest, or...
2. Start World War Three in getting these people out to save our continent and our civilisation's future. (But exactly which ones would we remove, and how? Everybody, myself included, has their 'good' black or Asian friend.)

Somebody at some point will have to publicly voice these concerns properly. This will cause a firestorm of reaction. With the amount of alienation in many, in particular young men, who with the deteriorating economy and this feel dispossessed of their own future and have nothing to lose it's a potential timebomb waiting to go off at any moment.

It's a chilling thought that in another unstable multi-ethnic state, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, one disillusioned young man who felt his group weren't being given their fair say shot Franz Ferdinand and within six weeks the First World War had started. Imagine how it could escalate if the next Anders Breivik anywhere in Europe decided to take out his frustrations on a mosque during Friday prayers? It's not at all impossible to imagine that this may happen within the next ten years.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Rachel » 16 Dec 2012, 01:09

Thanks Elliott for collating the comments.

I couldn't get to the end because I was getting a bit depressed reading it but it's a great idea to save this for future historical reference. The only thing you said that I disagree with - (I am just being nit picky) is that I don't think the Empire was a great thing overall. I think it depends on the countries involved. E.g it was a great thing for countires like Canada, USA, Hong Kong while for other countries like Cyprus, Israel and India there were both great things and some terribly negative things about it. Every country was different and it's too complicated to sum up.
I'm amazed at the idiot who says that turning London into Somalia is a good "punishment" for the empire. I didn't know that there were people that stupid or hateful.
I've often enjoyed it when you collated comments in the past, I just never took the time to write and say so till now.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Paul » 16 Dec 2012, 02:09

Excellent job with your collation of all those comments Elliott. Good synopses of your own too.

I believe a very great number of people have 'woken-up' or are at least awakening (one hopes) to the dire situation towards which we are heading. Very slowly, people are cautiously speaking out against it and this is to a great degree on the internet blog community as one comment observed.

There must be a resistamce, to the greatest of our ability, to any censoring or restriction of the freedom of speech on the web. Bad enough that we speak in whispers on the streets, but in the privacy of your own space, voicing (or typing) your own thoughts......

I can't remember if I mentioned on another thread, a recent survey I received from the local authority, with regard to housing and residence in the borough.

Although the authority can, I'm sure, find out only too well how many bedrooms I have (as with everyone in the borough), how old the property is, and probably what my primary heating system is and how old I am and etc, etc, etc, they still sent out this survey. Remember after all, I completed a national statutary census form last year, upon which there were all kinds of such questions and more besides. But notwithstanding, yet another survey, less comprehensive, but more local and no doubt having a similar cost per person (or local taxpayer) to implement and administrate.

Aside from the generally inane and typical questions about the dwelling, there were others about the street, the area, the town and the borough. Almost every question had a capacity for depression. Crime, litter, endless litter (sob), vandalism, vehicle interference, anti-socialism, ugly town centre, stupid road system, menacing atmosphere, lack of visible Police.....

It's hard to think of one positive. Then you start to wonder if you're morbid. Or depressed. Anti-social oneself even. A guilt trip is then tentatively entered upon and its easy to then become confused or overwhelmed.

But, I have decided, I AM morbid and I AM generally depressed and I have thus told the Council so via their survey. It's not as if they don't know or couldn't at least infer or predict my answers anyway. Are they themselves blind?

Of course my answers will be quietly shelved, or shredded and, the most disturbing part - will possibly be labelled as 'dissident' and rebellious.

The worst part of it was the depressingly predictable addendum to the survey. The one that's optional (but desired) which asks questions about your race (sigh), your sexuality (??) and your religious beliefs. Quite what relevance, not to mention what concern it is to a local authority as to your sexual preferences (on a housing survey) is questionable at least, if not darkly insidious. Especially since we are all supposed to be rubbing along together, pardon the expression, without prejudice as to our preferences. Quite the same could be said about race and religion too. So why do they need to know who is in which camp, if these things aren't an issue?

So the first section of this optional extra part was ....... Race. The following options were given for one to tick: (Don't laugh!)

White British
White Irish
White Scottish
White Welsh

Twenty-six other nationalities not traditionally from the indigenous people of the British Isles. I can't possibly remember them all though French was one and of course Indian and Pakistani. American wasn't included.

So where has England gone? And what in any case of the sheer factual error in inferring that the Irish, Welsh and Scots aren't British? But mainly, why have they omitted England?

Now at the very least this is academic sloppiness, on a local government document that has no doubt cost tens of thousands of pounds to compile and mail en masse. Including the cost of pre-paid reply envelopes for those who do reply - it being entirely voluntary - most of the surveys will of course end up in the bin. If only a fifth of the electorate can be bothered to turn out to vote for the people who will govern them, then it's not too hard to guess how many people will spend twenty minutes completing a meaningless and insulting questionnaire and then visting a mail box to despatch it. A sheer waste of public money in other words, at a time of austerity we hear.

But presuming that at least one or two people in the council aren't that dumb, then the omission of England takes on a darker meaning. It certainly struck me that way.

How many people will have spotted this (of the miniscule few who bothered to complete the survey)? But it's little things like this that are steadily chipping away all the time.

For all the fact that New Labour have gone (for now) and we are two years into a (weak and ineffectual) new government, the fact is the same attitudes are still there in the civil service. They haven't gone anywhere.

I did include a number of 'comments' in the margin, and in a space at the bottom. They probably now have a file on me ....... or at least have added to the one already existant!
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Tom » 16 Dec 2012, 02:26

Thank you for collating these comments Elliott. It is quite emotional for me to read through them. I found the anti-immigration comments saddening and the pro-immigration comments maddening. I would have found the latter hard to read through if it hadn’t been for your, often amusing, rebuttals. I particularly enjoyed your response to ‘Eoboy’.

It seems to me that most of the ‘pro’ commenters will keep their opinions whatever happens – whatever evidence they are presented with; and I find that very interesting. The process of the formation of opinions in the mind from evidence is complex, and error prone. One of the flaws I’ve observed in myself is that I unconsciously make assumptions before I’ve been exposed to much evidence, and then those assumptions colour my interpretation of the later evidence. This delays or perhaps blocks a review of the assumptions. If I finally do get around to wondering if such an assumption is actually true, I’m sometimes surprised by how much evidence there is against it.

I wonder if such a flaw in the reasoning process is responsible for the phenomenon of different people seeing the same overwhelming evidence and drawing opposite conclusions from it. There doesn’t seem to be much in life that everyone agrees on. In the case of immigration, I’m reminded of a survivor I saw interviewed after a ferry disaster: possibly that of The Herald of Free Enterprise. He reported people drinking in the bar as the ship tilted further and further. Eventually presumably these people drowned.

I see no possibility of the UK or most of Europe returning to their original cultures, and I think that the ‘cleansing’ that would be required for such a return would be so horrific as to not be compatible with those cultures. Large scale rapid immigration is like a ratchet, and the damage has already been done (not to deny that more damage isn’t likely). I hope some sanity will return to immigration policy – surely the pendulum must swing back at some point. After that I imagine further ghettoisation, and perhaps life in the European regions will be quite liveable as long as you don’t stray into the other areas. This is my most optimistic assessment.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Podori » 16 Dec 2012, 03:20

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that discrimination in favour of one's own kind has economic benefits that outweigh the alleged benefits of immigration. This is, after all, a thread on public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration, so I figure that my comments are just as appropriate as those from online newspaper boards.

But why would I say such a thing? First, I would compare Britain to Japan or South Korea. Both of those Asian countries cover a small land area with a dense, culturally unique population; geographically they are quite similar to Britain. However, because Japan and South Korea have precious few natural resources, they chose to advance in the world by improving their human capital through education. Mass immigration was, therefore, not needed or welcomed, as Koreans and Japanese chose to absorb knowledge and skills from other cultures rather than import people from other countries and give them permanent residence. And the reason why they chose not to import other people was pretty simple: they wanted South Korea to remain Korean and Japan to remain Japanese. In this way, the Koreans and Japanese reaped the economic rewards of a highly educated, skilled workforce without the cost of community ghettoisation. They realised that for every foreign worker in the country, there would be a price to pay in reduced social cohesion. This century, they will be proven correct.

The rapid economic growth of culturally and racially homogeneous Asian countries in the second half of the 20th century disproves the left-wing claim that welfare state multiculturalism is superior in economic terms.

And this is a point where I disagree utterly with Theodore Dalrymple. In his speeches, Dalrymple has eschewed xenophobia as "rank;" such a worldy man does not like to present himself as a mentally shackled nationalist for understandable reasons. On the contrary, I would argue, that self-favouring is necessary in advanced cultures, because if you recognise that your culture is harmonious and prosperous, and that members of your own race adopt similar values to yourself, then it only a matter of self-preservation to keep other cultures and races out. In that sense, the deeply entrenched racism of Koreans and Japanese is not a primitive cultural feature; it is a sign of their wisdom.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Nathan » 16 Dec 2012, 12:18

Podori, could you point me to where TD has said this? I can understand why he (as far as I am aware) has avoided publicly saying much about multiculture but surely somebody as insightful as him would have to have strong views on it. I would be interested too if you could tell us in a well-educated, developed, homogenous society like SK or Japan who does 'the jobs we don't want to do'.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Heather » 16 Dec 2012, 16:34

Thanks for collating these comments, Elliott, and for managing to keep up a witty commentary in the face of such depressing information! I've long been wondering how average people feel about Britain's cultural issues - what if this forum is just a bunch of (forgive me) grumpy and paranoid men? (I know it's not - but before I understood the depth of the various problems discussed here, I had to occasionally wonder.)

As an American, it's been very difficult for me to understand the scope of Britian's multicultural problems (especially since Islam has never been an issue in any place I've lived). It's simply not reported in our media - a couple of weeks ago I read an American article about Britain's pedophile rings, which conveniently forgot to mention that the rings are composed of Muslims preying on white girls! It was implied, but never actually stated, that the White Patriarchy had struck again - and how are Americans to know any better unless they go out of their way to read British conservative commentary? The only thing I've ever heard about Multiculturalism and Islam was from two years ago when I was pregnant and choosing baby names, when I read an article that said that Britain's #1 baby name was Muhammed (and variations of it). It's striking that not only are Muslims reproducing at such a high rate, but it also shows that they're not at all interested in integrating, else they'd give their children traditional British names.

My impression is that the situation is tense, almost desperate. It sounds like a lot of people recognize that there's a problem, but feel paralyzed to act against it. Reading all those comments makes it sound like a lot of people are ready to snap.

America has its own issues with underclass and immigrant populations. I hope that at the very least, we can learn from Britain.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Gavin » 16 Dec 2012, 16:50

I'd say that's a fair assessment, Heather. There is almost tangible fury in the UK now, yet people feel strapped and gagged, and that just makes them feel even more angry. Nathan suggested someone might flip within five years - I wouldn't be surprised if it happens inside one.

Here is Peter Hitchens' article on the census, with many more comments from the public underneath.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Podori » 17 Dec 2012, 00:08

Nathan wrote:Podori, could you point me to where TD has said this? I can understand why he (as far as I am aware) has avoided publicly saying much about multiculture but surely somebody as insightful as him would have to have strong views on it. I would be interested too if you could tell us in a well-educated, developed, homogenous society like SK or Japan who does 'the jobs we don't want to do'.

Theodore Dalrymple's remarks were in a speech on YouTube (if I remember his words, he said, 'I do not want to come across as a rank xenophobe'). Let me look it up.

In South Korea at least - where I live - there are very few jobs that Koreans won't do. The 'jobs we don't want to do' attitude is a spoilt brat notion that is much rarer in Korea that it is in the West. Korean employers far prefer Koreans over other nationals, and Korean parents, by and large, raise their children to compete for opportunities and work hard. There are some areas, such as unskilled labour in manufacturing plants, with a relatively high number of foreign workers, but it is nothing like Britain. The total number of foreigners in Korea is a one-digit percentage of the population.

This may change with time, however. The Korean population has hit a plateau and as more people study for university degrees they tend to eschew hands on work. These two factors may interact to attract higher numbers of foreigners in the future, but I doubt it will ever reach the scale it has in Europe. It is especially beyond reasonable thought to imagine Seoul becoming, like London, a city where the native population is in the minority.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Maxwell » 17 Dec 2012, 12:48

Tom wrote:It seems to me that most of the ‘pro’ commenters will keep their opinions whatever happens – whatever evidence they are presented with; and I find that very interesting.

Some supporters of the current leftist dogma mistakenly believe it to represent timeless and objective values, rather than being subject to whatever revisions are required to retain or extend power. Such people will find that the ground eventually shifts beneath them and that the views that make them progressive and tolerant today render them reactionary and racist tomorrow. Those wedded to "progress" and "perpetual revolution" will faithfully jump into line, but I suspect that a considerable number of the left-leaning are unknowingly conservative by nature and, if not cowed by propadandised fear of alternatives, will realise where the path is leading and turn politically.

The process of the formation of opinions in the mind from evidence is complex, and error prone. One of the flaws I’ve observed in myself is that I unconsciously make assumptions before I’ve been exposed to much evidence, and then those assumptions colour my interpretation of the later evidence. This delays or perhaps blocks a review of the assumptions. If I finally do get around to wondering if such an assumption is actually true, I’m sometimes surprised by how much evidence there is against it.

It's refreshing that you should acknowledge your own susceptibility to confirmation bias. You're clearly a lover of truth above expediency and therefore inherently unsuited to the left.
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Re: Public comments on multiculturalism and mass immigration

Postby Jonathan » 17 Dec 2012, 12:55

Thank you for your efforts, Elliott, these comments made an interesting read.

I wonder, however, if it might not have been better not to clean up the grammar and spelling mistakes, so we could get a feel for the level of education of the commenters.

Could you perhaps give your impression of the average level of the comments?
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