Reports from London

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Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 08 Feb 2013, 22:34

I was at Hampton Court Palace again today. Hampton Court is one of the wealthiest areas of suburban London. Many of the schoolchildren I saw in the there were of Arabic appearance, thus likely to be Muslims, but inside the palace grounds I found only Europeans.

For the first time I saw the amazing array of Mantagna paintings they have there. Picture below:

mantegna.jpg


I have taken, these days, to just stating my views frankly when chatting with people whom I have never previously met. I like to do that just to see how it floats. If they secretly share my views it might give them encouragement and more confidence to speak their minds. If not, then it'll give them something to think about. It shows them that not all people think as they do, there are alternative views and there are people they are going to have to overcome to get their way, people who won't take any more, and we're growing in number. The previously silent majority have seen a reason to speak out, and they're rising to the occasion.

Somehow, while in conversation with the lady who was explaining the paintings, I made the point that London is nearly lost now [it's hard to write this while someone is blasting out "music" aloud from their phone on this regional London train]. I usually begin fairly softly and then say more if it is clear that my interlocutor agrees. They often do. It turns out that this well-spoken middle-aged English woman was intending to get out of London as soon as possible. She recounted that she had accompanied her daughter to Tooting recently and the latter had said, after some silence, "This is not England".

I mentioned the kind of comments in The Telegraph, that the self-segregation is unacceptable, the public mood on this issue and the likelihood of those who had engineered this being held accountable to the British people in the future. I said it would be corrected, otherwise the civilisation we saw before us would not be preserved. I said it wasn't going to be easy, but it would happen. She agreed with all of this and I suppose was quite surprised to hear someone saying it all out loud. But it is just the Emperor's New Clothes - saying what everyone else can see. I told her it was important that we should not be ashamed of our views, that this had happened because we had been told to be ashamed of them in the past.

Conversation veered towards feminism, at which point I took the opportunity to mention that feminists are remarkably quiet on the topic of Islam. It turned out that this woman labelled herself as a feminist, so probably couldn't appreciate my position on this topic. Small steps. (The kind of feminism I dislike is that which belittles men, takes advatage of men and mistakenly claims that men and women are not only equal but identical. If she's not doing that, her battle was won long ago and there's no need for her to call herself a feminist.)

I have noticed that women will often finish a brief discussion of feminism with a comment such as "Yes, but sometimes it's good to have a laugh at men's expense" or "What's wrong with a bit man hating sometimes?". We're supposed to laugh along and agree. There's a sense that "the score isn't settled yet", "they can take it" and "they ask for it anyway". If we don't laugh then we're bad sports. But if was was reversed it, of course, it wouldn't be acceptable (nor would I want it to be), so I never laugh and I don't care how it looks.

Anyway, back to my earlier topic, that's my policy. I often speak openly. I have nothing to lose, after all. It's surprising how people react sometimes. They often share our sense of betrayal and apprehension. I only see it becoming more widespread from here. Even the luvvies who helped bring about this state of affairs don't like going to London now and some have said why. I think many more people will in the future, too.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Elliott » 09 Feb 2013, 06:59

I agree completely with you, Gavin. I haven't been to London for 6 years but it seems inevitable to me that white British Londoners will be unable to kid themselves for very long about the reality around them.

Here's a quote I coincidentally just found from Plato:

We can easily understand a child being afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when adults are afraid of the light.


Funnily enough, and just to change the subject rather, my best friend used to work at Hampton Court Palace, when we were living in London, so I actually know some of the staff there and have spent many evenings in the nearby pub with them. I can tell you from my experience of that sample that the staff span the entire political spectrum, from a hard-right paleoconservative (who happened to be gay, though you would never know), to a dreadful 40-something paranoid, bitter and twisted feminist (who tried to get a colleague sacked because he had touched her arm which was "unwanted physical contact").
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Nathan » 09 Feb 2013, 14:13

I fully agree with the idea of us having to speak our minds nowadays regardless of the effect to our own popularity in the hope of either encouraging others to do so or at least reminding them that we are out there, but I've not been so brave thus far Gavin to speak my mind in public with complete strangers - well done you!

I have the advantage of actually living in London so the people who I speak to when asked why I'm planning to move away generally do acknowledge the problems in that they don't usually disagree with me, but I have only had one person come out with strong views in agreement, namely in this incident. We'll just have to be very careful about how we go about it and which line to take, how far to go, etc, and have a response ready for every possible counter-argument.

If somebody like me, relatively young, you'd have to say reasonably well educated and with a few years' experience of living amongst multiculture has to mentally psyche myself up before visiting almost half the city then the idea that anybody who opposes it is either old, ignorant or just hasn't experienced its glories should be easy to debunk. Another way to help us avoid the 'racist' smear when talking about this would be for a high-profile non-white public figure spoke out against it, saying something like 'This isn't the country my parents moved to!', but I can't think of who the first person to fit the bill might be.

Since I won't be living in London forever I really ought to spend my weekends at the museums and galleries while I can rather than online, so thanks for the reminder of what I'm missing!
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Jonathan » 10 Feb 2013, 10:54

Gavin wrote:For the first time I saw the amazing array of Mantagna paintings they have there.


I remember seeing those, and wondering how accurate they were presumed to be - the wiki article is at great pains to suggest they are. In particular, one of the trumpets had 'DIVO IULIO CESARI' on it, whereas Julius Caesar was not deified in his lifetime.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 10 Feb 2013, 10:59

Right; I haven't read the article but the lady explained that they had been over-painted by other artists many times (unfortunately). Later artisans had removed as much of this as they could. She also said that literally tonnes of wax had been removed from their surface. (In the past they believed this would act as a preservative.)

They still looked very impressive although some were darker than others as a result of all of this.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 10 Feb 2013, 11:36

Nathan wrote:I've not been so brave thus far Gavin to speak my mind in public with complete strangers


Thanks Nathan. Actually I think it is a lot easier doing this with people you don't know (especially those in a professional role, there to "serve" you) than those you do. You're not quite on an even footing as a "customer": they're not supposed to offend you, so you can get away with more truth. I'm careful not to take advantage of this and not to put these people in a very awkward position, of course. I feel my way and just turn it up if I can see they agree. If not I just give them a few thoughts to indicate that others do not think as they do.

In personal relationships you're on an even footing and they can (and usually will) say whatever they like, so this isn't always as easy, as you know. Women in particular seem to get very emotional too, immediately offended by anything they regard as un-PC, whether it's true or not. If you can, pleasantly stick to a truthful line, I think.

I will start another thread on this general topic and the other points you raised in a moment. But for now, yes, it's actually very nice visiting London as a tourist! You get to see all the nice places (the few, the ones with the kind of architecture than would never be built now) and none of the bad ones. You can see how a tourist can come here and go home still ignorant of the massive problems. After all, you might travel privately by taxi too - they might not ever even go on the tube. I suppose I did the same when we went to Paris, went to the nice places, though I drove there, hoping to see the slums on the way through the suburbs. You're also not worn out, not facing the daily grind of work, you're there for pleasure and you know you can get away again soon. I was struck by how many people there were though, and how busy it was, and I've only been away a year.

Elliott, how amazing that you knew the staff from there. As you suggest, you can never assume anything. You can meet someone who you'd think would surely see the value of conservatism and they don't at all. The thought control at schools has been performed very efficiently since the Sixties.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Nathan » 20 Feb 2013, 11:49

I don't have time to analyse it but there's a report on the BBC site of all places wondering why white British people have moved out of London but deliberately not stating outright what we all know to be blatantly obvious. It's been up eight hours and has 1390 comments who mostly seem to be stating the familiar. The comments sections provide a useful insight into how people are thinking but I'm wary of them becoming a safety valve, whereby people (just like us on here!) can vent their frustrations but without actually doing anything about it.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 20 Feb 2013, 12:24

Very interesting. I don't have time to go into it much now either (!) but when you rank those comments by top rated there's so much frankness I'm surprised they allowed them on the BBC. Maybe they'll pull them. Probably worth collecting a few together.

I moved out of London and it wasn't due to economic prosperity! Sadly, I doubt that's the reason for many people, despite what Mark Easton's statistics say, or what he wants to present them as saying...
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Andy JS » 20 Feb 2013, 18:32

I have drawn up a spreadsheet with the London census results by white British ethnicity so that people can see exactly what has happened between 2001 and 2011 in each ward and parliamentary constituency. In some areas the changes have been quite startling.

I know there have been a lot of articles about this subject but I also think it's important to look at the raw data free of interpretation. (This data isn't available in this form anywhere else which is why I was forced to do it myself).
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Elliott » 20 Feb 2013, 19:56

That's astonishing, Andy. Only one ward in the whole of Greater London has seen its share of white British increase! (And ironically enough it's called Spitalfields & Banglatown.)
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Nathan » 20 Feb 2013, 21:03

^^ Up to a massive 26% of the population no less! I wonder why an increase there of all places? Southall Broadway at 3.51% just sends a shiver down my spine, particularly when you consider that unless something quite dramatic happens that's the highest it will ever be, even allowing for the fact a lot of the residents of Southall won't have been tempted to declare their existence on the census form.

I have to say I'm surprised Muswell Hill (where I lived until very recently) is only 65% - but there are nearly 20% of other whites, which gives a realistic final total. Thanks for doing all this, Andy, depressing reading though it is!
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 20 Feb 2013, 21:29

Andy, thanks very much for that work and for showing it to us.

I think that article on the BBC is a big one. So many good, or banned, comments. Just one of the latest, surviving, remarks:

DaveTrippa wrote:"Mass immigration and a lack of cultural integration has left many of the indigenous population of London feeling alienated and vulnerable. Labour mis-sold multiculturalism as a pipe dream of diverse, thriving communities enriching each other's cultures, when in reality it is much, much different."


The English can see what is happening to them.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 20 Feb 2013, 21:37

I see they have closed comments on it now. Well, you invite a whirlwind.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Nathan » 20 Feb 2013, 21:44

Most people do see what is happening and perhaps unlike a few years ago most people are now confident that most other people also think negatively about it. So is the dam going to burst at once if we have another outbreak of rioting or a suicide bomb attack in the next couple of years, or is there going to be a gradual shift towards being more frank and the window of what we can get away with saying in public becoming a little bit bigger and bigger every year? And then what? I'd love for this problem to just go away, but the prospect of long-suppressed overt racist feeling coming out into the open en masse fills me with dread, though I have to say not as much as the prospect of possibly becoming a minority in my own country towards the end of my lifetime with all that would entail. I think the dam will burst somewhere on the continent in a country without the British reserve and excessive 'politeness' before here.
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Re: Reports from London

Postby Gavin » 20 Feb 2013, 21:48

It's true - we are polite people, many are not.
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