What are you going to do if there is a war?

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What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Gavin » 23 May 2013, 11:48

Our Endgame thread (among many others) discusses the fracturing of society due to policies of multiculturalism and appeasement.

The breakdown now appears to be proceeding as we predicted. I am curious to know what people intend to do, should skirmishes break out, should the whole scenario play out eventually as expected. Skirmishes turning to civil war, possible concern from countries such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar who have so much vested financial interest in the UK and in the ongoing spread of Islam, thus it going international. Whichever European country goes first, that being a catalyst for the others. I don't think America will hurry to get involved, but it might do eventually (as before) if it thinks Europe will fall entirely.

I am interested in national and international prospects and we can continue our discussion of those here, but I am also interested to know what you see yourself doing. In the early period, at least, to many of us things will l look much the same, except on our televisions. But television stations may be over-run. The view from the window in an English village will be much the same. It probably won't be in an English city. What will you do? Where will you go? I will consider my own response to this question.

If there is a civil war I think it will be quashed, in our favour, even if it takes a military coup against the cowardly politicians. We do have the weapons to defend ourselves - and still the numbers - many of the general public have the will, too, even if the politicians don't. Maybe we will be drafted. We could lay low, stockpile food, hope it will one day be over. We could head for the battle areas, the firebombed inner city.

Whatever, I think you will see each "community" pulling much more tightly together. You'll start to speak to strangers you didn't speak to before. That's what happens in wartime. Previously there was really only one "community" in the UK and we were against the Germans. Now there are many who don't even speak our language and have explained that they are not primarily loyal to us but to their "brothers and sisters" abroad.

When you have a moment perhaps you can say what you think you will do as and when this escalates further, when it becomes intolerable through sheer demographics if not further Islamic attacks (which are surely bound to come).
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Nathan » 23 May 2013, 21:39

Interesting question. I've spoken before about how we overdo the doomy predictions on this site as so many dystopian forecasts from the past have been wrong, and if there is one thing we humans are good at then it is making the most of a bad situation, but given the scale of the cultural incompatibility, the demographics and the likely consequences of the next generation of political leaders reacting against the suicidal ideology of the past couple of decades I don't see any way out from a war. If it's going to happen anyway, and I think it will, then let's just get on with it while we've still got the numbers.

Not long ago I was waiting for a train in one of the worst parts of London late one evening, and there was a gang of about eight or ten Somalis in the middle of the platform who were speaking their own language, throwing their drinks bottles onto the tracks, spitting on the floor, and whether they actually meant to do it or were just behaving in a way that comes naturally to them, creating a very menacing and hostile atmosphere.

Aside from them, there was a quite rough-looking young Turkish-looking man and his girlfriend/wife, again speaking their own language, and me, the only British person in sight. Aside from a natural self-defence mechanism of 'Show no emotion, make no eye contact, and in ten minutes it will be over', my honest thoughts were not so much 'Get me out of here', but 'Get them out of here, and no need to worry too much about the niceties'.

Even a couple of years ago, I'd be thinking that it was only the most unsavoury of social misfits who could possibly think something that extreme and my objection to these people being here was therefore my problem and and the onus was on me to find a way to embrace it, but now, I know I'm not alone, and I think one day we genuinely will have a shot at getting those people out of here. I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not alone in thinking things are going to get bad, and things will get bad, and eventually we will win. I'm mentally prepared for it, so I don't particularly worry about this as I used to.

As for me, I'll be moving away from London fairly soon to a place which I am confident will still look and feel British in 30 years' time. White flight is not the only reason, but I don't deny that seeing the effects up close and personal of seeing our culture systematically eroded and our future chances for peace and prosperity put in jeopardy have brought out an angry and bitter side in me which was not there before.

No doubt there will be more jihadist attacks in the next few years, more of my people raped and killed by invaders, more riots, more discontent, more unsettling census results, more political turbulence, and all the feelings which people feel they are not allowed to express will be expressed, whether gradually or all at once, but it will be something I read about in the news, not something that happens outside my windows or most likely to people I know. I'll be able to go about my everyday life without being reminded of it that much, and I'll try my hardest to pretend it isn't happening.

If it comes down to a war then it would be wrong of me on so many levels to just sit back and do nothing, though what kind of war would/will it be? Northern Ireland-style paramilitary groups are hardly my thing, and I just can't imagine conscription, large-scale armies and mass infantry attacks like the last two world wars.

When I finished my degree I did actually plan on joining the RAF as a linguist, only while no sooner had I started the selection process I broke my wrist in a motorbike accident, meaning that I had to have a metal plate fitted, and I never got back the full flexibility of movement (I haven't been able to do a press-up since), and I was told I would fail the medical because of that, so withdrew my application.

If and when things really do get bad I'll certainly want to do my bit, and even if adding 10 or 15 years to my age I still won't be that old, so it's something I actually do half-expect to become a reality. It still seems too paranoid an idea to actually going to the lengths of stockpiling food and other resources, but I have wondered if it might be worth doing some kind of survival training course or potentially make myself useful by learning Arabic.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Caleb » 24 May 2013, 00:26

If there is war, be it in Britain or elsewhere, I will send financial support. I am sure there will be many others from outside Europe who will do the same.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Gavin » 24 May 2013, 09:39

That's good of you. I hope the banking system is working!

If a war breaks out I will fight to de-Islamise the country and get a proper conservative government into power, as best I can. It's going to require a complete shift of mindset though and some organisation (whole units of people going into areas). People will become animals engaged in hand to hand combat if it goes this far. I mean all combatants will be behaving like this maniac in Woolwich. DIY (home improvement) shops will be ransacked for their wares, but not for home improvement.

I'm afraid it will mostly be the chavs and the underclass who will fight. Most middle class have not thought this through and are just too civilised and pampered now. The only way many people will be able to do it might be by trying to keep in mind those before them who fought in wars and who would be horrified at the unrecognisable state of London, and of the country, now.

I think it will be a messy, brutal civil war. Authorities, while they exist, will speak and act as if they have control, but they won't have control. Civilians will ignore them and possibly in time overrun them. Some liberals (Shami Chakrabarti etc.) will come on and urge peace and likely get killed.

We've seen similar conflicts in Bosnia and, I suppose, the uprising in Egypt and even the rebellion of blacks against whites in South Africa. I am not a military person though, not even an expert historian, and would appreciate the views of someone with military training as to how this might unfold.

What kind of government would exist after? Probably a very hard right wing one, but hopefully that could be eased into a standard democratic one elected by the remaining people of the UK in time.

Maybe if it goes this far, anyway (as some have said here) many enrichers will look at the numbers, see the writing on the wall and leave for their ancestral and cultural homelands so that further bloodshed is averted. Those who are not "targeted" will probably leave quite quickly, too. Who wants to be in the middle of a civil war in someone else's country? It would be quick-smart back to Poland, I think.

It is, needless to say, a horrific scenario, but we are only trying to run predictions here, aware of the level of pent up public feeling on these matters.

One bad thought is that widespread conflict will almost inevitably be triggered by the natives, since the newcomers simply need to carry on as they are to win democratically. Thus those who start this will be framed as "the bad guys" even though they are only trying to preserve their way of life in their ancestral homeland.

But the worst thought is surely that once it is all over, after enough time, some liberals will probably start saying that diversity is a benefit again and it will all happen again.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Elliott » 24 May 2013, 10:05

Gavin wrote:But the worst thought is surely that once it is all over, after enough time, some liberals will probably start saying that diversity is a benefit again and it will all happen again.

That's an interesting point. I think it is more likely that, if they still advocate diversity at all, it will be of a more nuanced kind. I say that because this conflict, if it does happen, will be a categorical rejection of the West's thinking since 1945. It won't be a small modification, or a course correction. It will be a serious, fundamental, radical change. I think that, in the aftermath of that, liberals will really be naked at first and it will take them a long time, possibly centuries, to pick up the pieces of their ideology and regain their standing.

But they will, eventually, regain their standing. I think it's part of the cycle of things. But when that happens, and liberals start advocating diversity and multiculturalism again, the world will have the example of the 20th-21st century to shove in their faces to demonstrate how mistaken they are.

Cycles will come and go, but I think this experiment in global mass immigration will be a defining point in human history and the subsequent cycles will not incorporate duplicates of it, but be defined by this experiment, the one and only time that people thought it was possible to mix everyone up and hope for the best. It is too massive and radical an event to be duplicated throughout history.

If it does happen again, I don't think it will be for at least another thousand years.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Caleb » 24 May 2013, 23:17

Gavin: It won't have to be started by English, or at least not in an overt way. Young Muslim males are not exactly known for their even temperaments. It wouldn't be difficult to get them to overplay their hand in response to a rather minor event.

As for hoping the banking system would be working, I don't think that's necessary. Firstly, it wouldn't necessarily be down anyway. The entire internet would need to be down. There would most likely still be access to funds, though the bigger worry would be hyper-inflation/collapse of the currency. That would actually work in a foreign currency's favour, as people would want something that wasn't the GBP, such as the euro. Don't laugh! It's all by comparison. If Britain were in turmoil, the euro would look strong. Anyway, there'd probably arise a proxy currency within the U.K., most likely something like gold, or even a major foreign currency (USD, euros). Foreigners would be able to deposit foreign currency, which some organisation within the U.K. would then offer to the British deposit holders as gold, and the "bankers" would make a profit on the exchange.

A second scenario would be, for instance, that a British organisation (let's just say the EDL) would set up a financial base (either directly, or through proxies) in a country that wasn't directly involved in the war, for instance, the Netherlands. People would send their money to the EDL's bank account in Amsterdam (it could get done through a bank in Singapore or the Caymans with an affiliate in Switzerland, with a branch in the Netherlands -- there could be many steps in the chain, and this is how money gets washed by terrorists or organised crime). The EDL would then withdraw that money in Amsterdam, purchase supplies, and transport them to East Anglia or Newcastle or wherever their coastal base of operations was. The jihadists would be doing a similar thing.

Certain channels break down in war, but during the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia, for instance, this is how it would have happened, and both sides were evidently getting armed from somewhere, even when NATO tried to wade into the middle. They might both have been using the very same banks in Switzerland! You just need a porous border, and a coastline is even better. Unless the jihadists could control the seas, there'd be no way to stop this.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Gavin » 24 May 2013, 23:51

I agree, Elliott. And Caleb, yes I suppose it won't have to be started by us. In effect it could already be said to have been started. Murdering a soldier on the streets of London feels like war. As does rioting in Husby. The mission of ejecting Muslims from the United Kingdom might be regarded by many as simply defence, defence of civilisation. Many will consider it long overdue.

Another thing I have been thinking about is the technical and communications aspect. The government can have social networking services blocked. There are proxy servers but it seems to me if it came to civil meltdown they could even have all ISPs deactivated making organised comms difficult, keeping government channels only open. The same for the phone network. They would broadcast messages only across digital radio and TV: "Stay in your homes" etc. and armed soldiers would be posted on streets throughout the UK - martial law.

They would have a fair bit of influence since in this country few people have guns. Whether they would decide to take a side in the battle for Britain though, rather than just act as "peacekeepers", is something I think we can't tell at this point. We can pretty sure they are furious though - after all one of their own has just been murdered on his own home turf.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Caleb » 25 May 2013, 00:36

Yet martial law would have to be applied to everyone. If it did work, the country would basically be a fascist state. To what extent would the armed forces go along with that beyond a couple of days? I don't know that they would. I don't think the British military is of a similar kind to that in the third world where they see an opportunity for a coup and seize it so they can become tyrants and live off everyone else.

On the other hand, for martial law to exist, everyone would need to follow it. Would Muslims follow it? I don't think they would. So then, the police and army would have two possible responses. On the one hand, if they reacted to the Muslims, there'd be a massive Muslim response, and then the police and army would have to quell them (and they'd have massive support from the rest of the public in doing so). It would escalate rapidly. If they turned a blind eye to it, then large sections of the rest of the community would ignore it also, and there'd inevitably be clashes between both Muslims and non-Muslims, but in theory, clashes between non-Muslims and the police and army too. Except I don't think the rank and file of those organisations would basically instigate martial law against non-Muslims, but not against Muslims. It wouldn't get to clashes between the police and non-Muslims (who would number in their tens or even hundreds of thousands, and thus wouldn't just be the EDL). There would be mutiny within the armed forces because the rank and file of the army are not too dissimilar in their thoughts about all of this to the rank and file of the EDL.

There is going to come a point when the police or army rank and file turn on their superiors and either ignore a non-Muslim response or actively support it (whether covertly or overtly). It's one thing to be told to corral EDL supporters at a rally. They can buy that as keeping the peace to some extent. It's another to tell them to ignore one of their own being targeted. This one might get through, but what if a second or third or fourth soldier or policeman is targeted? (Para-)military organisations do support their own.

I can't see what the endgame is for jihadists, to be honest, unless they can play out the demographic game. That's going to take a couple more decades, at least though. I just can't see the kind of smooth sailing that would be required over such a long time period. There's a high possibility of a flash point within the next few months (even if this recent event does die down), let alone two decades.

They would receive material support from abroad, but so would the British citizenry, and the British military is well armed and trained. It would be not a decisive factor, but the decisive factor. It's one of the best fighting forces in the world. The Muslims wouldn't be fighting an insurgency like in Afghanistan or Iraq where the broader society either nominally or broadly supported them and the British military were the outsiders having to organise and get supplied from abroad. The British military would be on its home turf, fighting from its position of strength. The British Navy could quite easily blockade most material support from abroad. Muslims would have to fend for themselves, but what would they do, fortify their mosques, use rocket launchers against tanks? The British military would flatten them. Let's say they took out a British tank from a shot fired from within a mosque. The military would destroy that mosque. They wouldn't sit back and take it and watch another tank get blown up.

The military would have to become completely ineffective for this not to play out in such a way. There are only two ways that could happen. One would be for Muslims to take over the military (as in happening in Russia) over the next twenty years. Yet that's not going to happen for two reasons. Firstly, the average guy who goes into the British military is probably overwhelmingly lower to lower middle class white. Even if he doesn't lean to the right going in, the organisation itself and his experiences as part of that organisation probably tip him in that direction. They certainly don't tip him in the other direction. Likewise, Muslims aren't going to join the military because of the awkward positions that would put them in, and they'd be despised by their own communities. There's an occasional black guy, and that Sikh someone highlighted a while back, but the British military is probably the last institution that is fundamentally white British, and overwhelmingly so.

The other way for the British military to become completely de-fanged would be for it to be downgraded and underfunded to a massive extent. That might be a possibility, and yet, despite being quite a socialistic country, Britain maintains quite a strong military. This is true of France also, which is even farther to the left. Why? I don't know exactly, but it is the case. It's a strange situation where the left wing state funds a large right wing organisation, yet they do. Even if it got downgraded and underfunded more than what it is now, I'd still always put my money on 1,000 British soldiers over 10,000 Muslim wannabe jihadists.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Gavin » 25 May 2013, 18:45

I think we're really getting to a realistic handling now and that's a good post, Caleb.

It begs the question as to why, if the UK could nail this thing, are people like David Cameron so craven? I mean, he can't really believe that ever-increasing Islam is a good thing for the UK.

I should say that I think the reason why Dave is so craven is that he is not a patriot and doesn't care about the UK's medium to long term future but only about his own short term future.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Nathan » 25 May 2013, 20:57

This is more pertinent to the Woolwich atrocity thread, but not suitable for open viewing so I'm including it here. I spoke to my dad on the phone today - a very reasonable, professional man, not generally as right-wing as me and with over 60 years of accumulated wisdom to draw from, and these were his words when we touched on the subject of the Woolwich attack, having had three days to digest the information and calm down:

I wish we'd just start shooting the bloody lot of them.


When the pendulum does swing to the right, and perhaps too far, we might be surprised at how far the general public are willing to go along with it.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Gavin » 25 May 2013, 21:13

That's the sort of thing my dad says too, Nathan, and he really is one of the nicest people you could meet. Just a really nice, decent person. Privately, he's sick to death of the Muslims.

Normal decent people in the UK just don't want to be subject to Muslim sensitivities or demands and they don't want to be colonised. This is not a society our parents ever expected to see and they are not from a generation who mince their words.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Caleb » 26 May 2013, 07:28

David Cameron is a politician. That's your answer to why he is so craven. He deals in short term thinking. He is also isolated from what goes on at street level. That's the other part of the problem. It's rarely bad for these people because they rarely enter places where problems truly exist, and on the rare occasions when they do, there's a whole process of vetting and creating a "safe zone" that goes on before they even get there. There's a stock of "safe", fawning buffoons who get rolled out for meet and greet sessions with politicians. This guy is white, that guy is black. This guy runs a hardware store, that woman is a nurse. For all we know, they could all be exactly the same android just with a different head! Ever wondered what happened to the people who cracked the Enigma Code? They locked them in a warehouse somewhere until they invented the perfect member of the public to meet the Prime Minister.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Gavin » 28 May 2013, 16:42

This may as well serve as a "sequel" to the Endgame thread. In the light of Nathan's two posts and all the others recently, it looks like we are effectively at war now, really. It is one story after another - but so far always Muslims attacking indigenous people, even though the media are at pains not to cover those particular stories (but would rejoice at being able to mention the opposite).

It appears that the history books will write that the UK multicultural civil war was sparked by the Islamic beheading of a soldier in the streets of London. Well it had to be something. I would think the fight back would start soon.

What the MOD should be doing now is requiring soldiers to wear uniforms and encouraging them to carry weapons and to not hesitate to shoot any Muslims who present a threat. Okay, all Muslims present a threat in an ideological sense, but an immediate physical threat.

People like Fjordman have been warning for a very long time that this multicultural experiment wouldn't work, and it was obvious to most people that this was an unsustainable situation. In return such observers were pilloried by the establishment. But reality seems to be coming home to roost.

I hope those in the media in time come to support not Islam but traditional British culture and all it has achieved. And I hope those who brought this about with their constant appeasement, their bias and their policy of mass third world immigration without mandate are remembered. They will pretend they did nothing wrong.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Nathan » 28 May 2013, 18:04

The thing is, this is going to be such a messy and complicated war compared to World War I and II - both of those put together lasted less time than our War on Terror has, before it's really got started. My personal opinion is that if we can't live in peace with Muslims, and the past week has shown firstly that they can't be expected to behave peacefully towards us and we can't ever seriously learn to be happy living amongst them, then we can't live with them at all, irrespective of the correct argument that on an individual level "They're not all bad".

Basically, if we accept that premise, then we'll have to simply somehow get rid of millions of people, who given birthrates and age profiles alone will go from the low single digits of millions towards nearer ten million within the next few decades. That's such a drastic and far-fetched measure, but even if the Muslims suddenly started behaving themselves they would never be able to seamlessly blend into the general population over the centuries in the same way previous Roman/Saxon/Viking/Norman invaders did, because we will always know who the Muslims' descendants are by virtue of that simple, unavoidable fact that they don't look like us. The divisions and distrust in society would always exist as long as we have that visible reminder.

The will of the general public is certainly heading towards that direction, but before we can get anywhere close to that being a reality, the politicians who have the will to enact such a thing have to get into power - who do we have? There is no Churchill waiting out there to simply be appointed PM, and we would need somebody much stronger than that. It's the political establishment and the liberal consensus in society that have brought this situation on us, so that is the real enemy as far as I am concerned, and one that which needs to be destroyed and discredited before we can get anywhere.

To achieve this, for the next five or seven years I'm simply hoping for as much turmoil and discontent as possible without too many casualties. Thinking strategically, Lee Rigby's killers managed to galvanise public opinion against their cause so strongly, yet on our side of the balance sheet we only lost one man. We already have possible dozens of fresh Muslim sex grooming scandals to see the light of day in the near future and work in our favour, yet for the gains in public support our side won't sustain any further casualties, since the damage to those young girls has already been done.

A no-confidence vote in our current government would be a good start, whether it succeeds or not, then after the next election a weak, increasingly out-of-touch Lib/Lab coalition which has no new ideas and can't muster any public enthusiasm. UKIP have done their job in putting the fear of God into our political class without a single MP, so I feel there is strategic value in them to average 20% nationwide, yet come second in hundreds of constituencies up and down the country and win no seats. A Yes vote in the Scottish referendum would cause a decent amount of upheaval and uncertainty, as well as give people on both sides of the border the realisation that they can be the masters of their own destiny and cause them to want to reconnect with their historical roots.

A repeat of the 2011 riots would put pay to any idea that that was a one-off which holds no lessons for public policy. Further legal roadblocks in the Abu Qatada saga will play into our hands without any real damage to us. Likewise with the EU, holding on until the last minute, and holding another couple of debt-ridden Southern European countries to ransom and hopelessly dithering about what to do for the best before it ends up the way of other pan-national European empires throughout history should be an undeniable call for a whole new approach to politics.

I don't expect a major change in the nature of hostilities any time soon, though the scale might escalate: the occasional terrorist bomb slipping through the net, random murders of high-profile or highly symbolic individuals, increasingly hostile behaviour towards non-Muslims living in 'Muslim' areas, but no tangible, organised enemy who we could deal with militarily. No doubt there would be EDL types burning mosques or taking potshots at the better-known agitators like Choudhary et al, and perhaps a Breivik targetting our own enemy within, but they will probably be our only counterattacks in the near future.
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Re: What are you going to do if there is a war?

Postby Paul » 29 May 2013, 10:18

Gavin wrote:What the MOD should be doing now is requiring soldiers to wear uniforms and encouraging them to carry weapons and to not hesitate to shoot any Muslims who present a threat. Okay, all Muslims present a threat in an ideological sense, but an immediate physical threat.


From information given by the son of a friend of mine (the son is in the RSME, though he's only 17) the army last week cancelled weekend leaves and ordered everyone back into barracks. This order was then cancelled and some leave was granted. A further order not to wear uniform in 'civvie street' was rescinded and became merely advice not to wear the uniform. The resulting situation was that most soldiers who took leave made a definite point of wearing their uniform, as a sign of solidarity with Lee Rigby. Certainly my friend's son did so and arrived back in Lancashire last Friday night, on the train from Surrey, in full camouflage dress, complete with boots and beret. Quite a sight really. Normally he would arrive back home in jeans and a shirt with his kit in a large bag.

Of course he wasn't armed and really this would be a dramatic step. He is only 17 after all and it wouldn't be a good move right now to have young men (and boys even) traversing the country with guns. It would in any case require a massive effort for Parliament to pass a law allowing such a thing - something they will never do. Also, lone soldiers (of any age) couldn't necessarily be controlled and expected to do the right thing. It could well result in complete chaos and also of the 'enemy' acquiring military-quality weapons. It would also be martial law, but of a militia type.

Something is coming however!
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