Germany and the refugee crisis

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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Paul » 16 Sep 2015, 07:20

Yes fascinating information from Yessica although tragic also.

One has to say, what a hatchet job has been done on Germany in the end, for all their prosperity. On German people, on their whole mindset, making them, or at least persuading them to feel this way and for then to suffer the consequences.

I don't recall the French being made to feel bad because of Napoleon. What about the Italians and Caesar? Meanwhile we're welcoming into Europe the kind of people who glorify their warlords (far worse ones too) and meekly go along with this view.

I cannot recall anyone in Britain being anti-German. There will be a scant few haters (of anyone), typically a thug of whom even the British don't like, but to be honest I've never met one, that is specifically anti-German. Obviously some attitudes might well have been sharper exactly 70 years ago, because of raw wounds, but I was born not too much later, in 1963, and I can't recall anything anti-German. On the contrary, I'm sure everyone is admiring of Germany for the country it has become (until very recently).

It's all the more pointed that Jonathan should say what he does also.

You need to speak up to your fellow Germans (carefully of course) and tell them what we think. That at least two of your supporters come from the two countries that Germans might think are the last to be included in such a list - Israel and England. And that they likely speak for tens of millions more.

It's astonishing that Germans think they did too well out of the post-war world. Half your country was seized by the Soviets for over 50 years and the remainder has been under part occupation to this day. Having got rid of the Soviets, it would do well to now get rid of the Americans, British and anyone else in occupation. After all it's YOUR country, it belongs to you, not to anyone else.

Obviously you have to now get rid of millions of people far more worrying than a few Brits and Americans. All the normal people of those countries would support that.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Charlie » 19 Sep 2015, 08:11

This makes me feel ill.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Nathan » 19 Sep 2015, 17:53

Oh dear...

Image
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Yessica » 21 Sep 2015, 07:51

Why has the name of the boards been changed. For my part, I don't like the new one. It's too martialistic.

That's scary, Nathan. If he does not have a twin that's him. There is another case of a man who came as a refugee but boasted to be an ISIS fighter. Other refugees filmed him. He is being investigated now. I heard it on the news and unfortunately cannot find an english source.

I think I could ask every person I know "Why is Germany the wealthiest country in Europe?", and every single one would say it is because of innate German virtues (hard-working, organized, efficient, responsible). I wonder if the Germans are the only ones who see Germans in this way. You'd sort of think that the temptation to believe nasty things about Germans would be greater in Israel than in most other places, but I don't think anyone would say what you said. Maybe I'll run a quick poll at work tomorrow, and see if I'm mistaken.


Jonathan, please do that poll.... but nobody experiencing this will ever say Germans are organized or efficient again. This is just so chaotic. The people are living in tents, nobody knows what happens when the winter comes. There are not enough people to pick up garbage, hand our food or give them medical treatment. All of this is done by volunteers, unpaid volunteers, now.
All things like clothes, toys for the kids and so on are donated. In some cases the state is even unable to provide the food. In a nearby city the population has been asked to donate babyfood.

The borders have been closed now, but they still let in everybody who comes. At least they register them. 70% of the individuals entering our country have zero documentation of identity but are still let in as "undocumented refugees".

Sometimes people just disappear on their way to the refugee camps. They use the safety break and leave the train and the porters are afraid to stop them. It is believed that they will try to go to Sweden, GB or France but nobody knows.

It's astonishing that Germans think they did too well out of the post-war world. Half your country was seized by the Soviets for over 50 years and the remainder has been under part occupation to this day.


There is in fact an interistoing difference between East and West Germany which is becomeing clearer and clearer now. Liker I said Western Germans are far more likely to feel guilty, too feel what they got is better then they deserved.
What Eastern Germans got after WWII was still better then what they did expect and I think that there are still Eastern Germans alive who are happy that the Russians spared them. I know that there are many like this in the gentry because when the Russians came they where afraid "they will genocide the gentry now" but they did not do this.
Eastern Germany also benefitted from the Marshall plan after the reunification because it benefitted from being reunificated with a strong Western Germany.
Anyway Eastern Germans still feel less guilty and as a result conservative opinions but also right wing opinions are more common in this part of the country.
There is a strong opposition in the CDU party now against Merkel and the politicians, who speak out against her, are mostly Eastern Germans or from Bavaria a very conservative place in the South of Germany.
I now do live in North-West Germany and the population here is very worried about the influx of so many immigrants but the "public opinion" is dominated by people who are very much in favour of letting everybody in.

There is a gulf opening now between Eastern and Western Germany, not so much between the people but between the "opinion makers" and some liberal news papers now use "Saxon" as a synonym for uneducated right wing people... which is sort of riduclous because as a group Saxons perform better on standardized tests, then people from the "cooler" parts of Germany. Has been proofen over and over.

The problem now is that everybody whon points out critical developments is lumped together with right wing extremists, is lumped together with people who are drunk at 10.00 in the morning, is lumped together with violent persons.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Gavin » 21 Sep 2015, 09:12

Hi Yessica. Yes, the name of the site has changed - this is something I have mentioned for several years in discussion with long-standing members - I'll send you a link and include you. I want to widen the scope from TD, I no longer want to wonder whether he would agree when I tweet or when we write here - also now seemed an apposite moment for the change (indeed high time) since Europe is actually now effectively being invaded. There can be such a thing as an intellectual defence of the civilised West - that's what it seems to me is the purpose of this site (and the Twitter feed). The content need not change at all. Back on topic!
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Jonathan » 22 Sep 2015, 10:36

Yessica wrote:Jonathan, please do that poll....


I actually did that poll a few days ago, but haven't had a chance to post. The answer was "Because of the Germans", in a tone which said that I really ought to have known that. It was like asking "Why did Hansel and Gretel go into the house made of chocolate?" and being told "Because of the chocolate".

If we combine German demographic trends with unlimited immigration, within a few generations the German people will be dissolved in a sea of Arabs. This, I think, will be bad for the Germans, bad for Europe, bad for humanity - and also bad for the Jews. However much the past clings to us, if we look forwards it is plain that whatever comes instead of Germany will be much, much worse.

This is a very difficult thing for a Jew to say, with the memory of the war still (barely) within living memory. I feel I must add some condition, but I'm not sure what it should be. Perhaps I should say, 'So long as the lessons of the holocaust remain engraved on their hearts'. But it seems that one of these lessons (the danger of unbridled nationalism) has perhaps been learned too well - every form of nationalism seems suspect nowadays, in Europe. Most of Europe seems to equate the most minimal self-defense with a complete rejection of this lesson, and this may prove to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I fear that the man who stands up and shouts 'Fools! Protect yourselves and the future of your children' will find that he has not inspired a few border fences and legal changes, but a thousand Anders Breiviks - or worse.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Charlie » 25 Sep 2015, 07:03

I guess you won't see this sort of thing just yet in the lamestream media.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Nathan » 25 Sep 2015, 09:31

Maybe not, but the Daily Mail did run this article today:

Rape and child abuse 'are rife in German refugee camps': Unsegregated conditions blamed as women are 'seen as fair game' in overcrowded migrant centres

This is based on a letter written back on 18 August as well. If overcrowding is a contributing factor here then presumably that will inevitably have got worse and will continue to get worse over the next few months.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Nathan » 28 Sep 2015, 11:05

Diversity strikes again:

Dozens of police were called out after a mass riot broke out over food at a tented refugee camp in Germany.
Tear gas was used to break up brawling between an estimated 400 refugees and 60 people were hurt.
The riot at Calden near Kassel came on the the same day Germany's biggest police union called for a new 'apartheid' system to be enforced in refugee homes – the separation of people according to religion – after a number of flare ups in recent weeks.
Conservative politicians back the calls claiming Christians in the homes are being harassed and persecuted by hardline Muslims.
The former minister of the interior Hans-Peter Friedrich said: 'It is sad, but obviously necessary that we require the separation of asylum seekers according to religion.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urope.html
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Yessica » 07 Oct 2015, 16:28

Charlie, I hope you condemn this kind of arson attacks because you leave the link uncommented. I do think that this attacks are horrible crimes and cannot be excused.

However there are horrible crimes in the name of nearly every ideology on this planet, even in the name of the most peaceful. There are horrible crimes in the name of environmentalism (google Unabomber for an example) and that does not make environmentalism wrong.

Peaceful patriots should speak up against this arson attacks because it is not what we stand for.

Today when I switched on the news I learned that there had been two mass brawls again this night on in Hamburg where men from Albania demanded the other refugees to pay to use the shower. They were attacked by a number of Syrians then. Another brawl in Braunschweig.
We hear now that the order in the camps can only be upheld because they send massive amounts of cops. There are clashes between groups who pelt stones, they destroy their own camps, they destroy their beds in order to use the poles as weapons. It looks like scenes from the middle east... and to me that looks.... I don't know.... senseless, like rabies. WHAT IS IT ACTUALLY THAT THEY WANT? WHAT DO THEY HOPE TO ACHIEVE?

You don't hear much about this in the English news. It is so scary.

A poll recently showed that 72% want to take in no more refugees, 81% say there should be controlls at the borders, 63% say they don't know if Germany can cope with the influx (from a mainstream news source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txw_rge ... um=twitter results of the poll at 1:21)

The CDU (Merkel's party) is becoming less popular. I have to explain something about our culture here. Germans are loyal voters. It is not uncommon for a person to stick to the same party or same two parties for their whole lifetime. The CDU was founded in 1945 and is one of the oldest political parties in Germany. In Western Germany there are families weho have been voting them for three generations. I am not sure if they would really vote another party however unhappy they are but it might happen.

Nathan might be interested in this video, unfortunately it is German: http://www.welt.de/politik/article14725 ... m-Amt.html
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Nathan » 07 Oct 2015, 20:20

Thanks again for keeping us updated on this from a German perspective, Yessica. Obviously I've been keeping myself informed about the situation through the German press, but I'm suspicious of how the whole story seems to have just disappeared from the British media in the past two weeks. There is almost no mention of the fact that these people are still trekking halfway across Europe to get to Germany and the problems are being compounded.

The situation in the camps seems like a recipe for trouble - no matter how well they are looked after, we're still talking about large groups of men from various different countries being kept in crowded conditions with nothing to do for months and months while their asylum cases are being processed, also in an unfamiliar country where they can't speak the language and so can't communicate properly.

I notice too that the numbers of these people for this year has been revised upwards from 800,000 to 1.5 million. I wish I had something good to say about all this!
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Yessica » 08 Oct 2015, 11:42

I think the tone in the political debate is changing. Some news stations such as n-tv or N24 now see Merkel's decision in a critical light.
34 CDU politicians wrote an open letter to Merkel and according to what I heard they said that this politic is not what the CDU stands for. The CDU used to be a traditional conservative party. I think this kind of opinion is called "high Tories" or ("red Tories?") in Great Britain. There is two kinds of "Coservative" in Germany and the CDU stands for the more traditionalist opinion, but less for neo-liberalism.The CDU used to be critical of uncontrolled immigration. I am going to read the letter and maybe translate interesting parts if people from this boards are interested.

Thomas de Maizière, minister of interior has spoken quite critical about the immigrants/refugees.

Thomas de Maizière wrote:They leave the camps, they call for a cab and most surpriosingly they have the money to pay to travelhunderds of kilometres trough Germany. They go on strike because they don't like how they are being housed, they are troubkle because they don't like the food and they fight in the refugee camps


I think there might be a rebellion within the CDU soon. I am glued to the television because I am interested what happens next.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Charlie » 08 Oct 2015, 17:19

Yessica wrote:Charlie, I hope you condemn this kind of arson attacks because you leave the link uncommented.


Of course, Yessica, though if I need to condemn anyone explicitly here, I'd much prefer to focus on excoriating the current Chancellor of your country.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Charlie » 09 Oct 2015, 07:54

I just thought I'd link to this article, since the author's observations about his recent trip to Germany make for an interesting read.
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Re: Germany and the refugee crisis

Postby Yessica » 14 Oct 2015, 08:57

A quick update: winter is coming to Germany... as could be expected... as everybody but our politicians, who seem to be surprised by that, knew.
We have temperatures close to zero degree celcius in the night and the first snow. Now there are still 42.000 people in tents which are unsuitable for the weather. Everyday 10.000 are still entering the country.
It's the recipe for disaster.

According to a new poll 1/3 want Merkel to reseign ands only 19% believe Germany can absorb more refugees.
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