Cultural Self-flagellation

Examples of social decline, especially in the UK

Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Andrea » 21 May 2014, 16:16

I'm not sure if there is a more suitable section of this forum in which I can add this, so apologies if it's not quite right here. I was just reading The Telegraph, which I used to respect, and I came across an article written by a left-wing journalist who nearly, if not completely, fits the stereotypical image we have of western-culture-hating lefties. "Supporting England at the World Cup is like voting UKIP":

"none of us pays special attention to St George’s Day and many of us continue to associate the St George’s Cross flag with poverty, sink estates, skinheads and bulldogs. That’s a pity, but it’s a fact."

Whilst it is true that the majority of people who wave the St. George flag are football fanatics who tend to be loutish and take part in anti-social behaviour, it should never have been taken by them. The St. George flag has a rich history and Englishmen should take it back from the underclass and proudly display it. There is nothing wrong with patriotism, and that is what middle-class persons and up should realise.

I urge you all to read the comments, which (as usual) have some true gems, such as the following:

HonkyFronky • 8 hours ago
Had made my mind up about this idiot after the second paragraph.

The loathing for anything resembling an English identity by lefty pseudo-intellectuals like this disgusting commentator, is merely a reflection of their own self loathing.

There is nothing positive about socialism, reflected in the article by the individuals he quotes; more destructive left-wing "intellectuals" who spend far far too much time in their arrogant little bubbles proscribing what is best for society whilst having never left the safety of their institutions.
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Nathan » 21 May 2014, 16:58

It's truly sad how a long-standing institution like the Telegraph has stooped to winding up its own readership with this kind of thing. I hope they still think it was worth it when they've gone out of business.

And again, this kind of cultural self-flagellation is only ever aimed at England. If Scotland had qualified for the World Cup no writer of any nationality would dare write this kind of sneering article, much the same as no Scottish nationalist is ever referred to as a Little Scotlander.
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Kevin R » 21 May 2014, 23:38

I often visit historic churches and, along with a few ancient castles, they are one of the few remaining institutional foundations left that still dare to fly the flag of St George. It's a heart-warming sight to see one hove into view atop a medieval tower whilst pootling along a country road.
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Andrea » 22 May 2014, 09:52

I agree, Kevin - it's always nice to see it flying proudly at historic sites and churches.

Funny thing is I use the St. George flag often - and I never watch football (can't stand it).

Nathan, I agree re: Telegraph. What are they thinking?
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Nathan » 08 Jul 2014, 08:46

A statue of Gandhi, who spent much of his life fighting against the British government, is to be erected outside the Houses of Parliament as a sop to the Indians. ... quare.html

The other three statues are of Winston Churchill, Nelson Mandela and Abraham Lincoln. What kind of country, other than one which has given up on any sense of being a civilisation of its own or on being the cultural homeland of its own people erects statues of people outside its own parliament three-quarters of whom were not from or even did anything pro that country?
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Andreas » 09 Jul 2014, 18:05

What kind of country... erects statues of people... three-quarters of whom were not from or even did anything pro that country?

France, or at least Montpellier:

They have the distinction of having the only statue of Mao anywhere in Europe! (There's a Lenin too). I wonder if it occurs to them (the ones who support this) to ponder what would become of their city and the sunny, beautiful Mediterranean countryside around them, if someone like Mao or Lenin were ever in power there?
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Elliott » 09 Jul 2014, 20:30

That's just infuriating about the Gandhi statue, and I like the way you put it, Nathan, about what the four statues together say about modern Britain.

I hate to say this, but to me it just seems like more vindication of what I've been saying all along. In a multicultural state, the dominant culture finds it increasingly hard to have any pride in itself. Of course it might be said that Britain is a unique case, because of the Empire, which exploited/victimised the ancestors of those people who make our present-day minority communities. In this interpretation, we have little pride in our own culture because of the Empire. But then... what about Sweden? It, too, is using multiculturalism as a means to destroy its own dominant culture.

I don't think this "cultural self-flagellation" is tied to the individual history of any particular country. I think it is a West-wide thing, and endemic to multiculturalism.

That's not to say multiculturalism must lead to this self-flagellation. Some countries are undoubtedly handling immigration better than Britain, Sweden, the US, etc. But, as I've said before, I believe it is only a matter of time for those countries as well. Eventually the minorities become numerically prominent enough that it is no longer sufficient to "tolerate" them or patronisingly "celebrate" them: you have to give your country to them.
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Re: Cultural Self-flagellation

Postby Gavin » 22 Oct 2014, 10:32

A couple of weeks ago my wife and I went to see Hans Zimmer in concert at the Apollo in London. The event was great - here is part of the performance:

There was more live instrumentation than I had expected and it is certainly powerful music. So, on the whole the event was outstanding, but I did make one or two observations about the audience and I will outline them now.

We had expected that most of this audience might be older and fairly "middle class”, but in fact there were a good many stoner types, hipsters and the like. I spotted quite a lot of trendy beards, tattoos and beanie hats and heard a few F words, as one might expect anywhere at all in public. All of these clearly had enough easily disposable income to be able to spend between £30 and £100 on a ticket.

Another thing I noticed was that whereas once upon a time such an audience would have consisted almost exclusively of couples, now most of the women were accompanied by other women - friends - and most of the men were in groups with each other. As we know, society is now atomised with few getting married and many who are married getting divorced. Many not even getting into serious relationships at all. It’s empowerment, you know. This was reflected in what we observed among the audience: perfectly eligible people, single. Perhaps looking for a perfection to match their own - they will have a long wait.

The low point of the evening was clearly marked and I will explain what that was now. Mr Zimmer had some “special guests” appear. The audience was generally receptive to his wonderful music, very well performed by all of the talented instrumentalists, but virtually everyone suddenly arose from their seats, such was their excitement, when one individual arrived: this was a rapper named Pharrell Williams. All of the women who I saw, whether black or white, were waving their arms and getting out their cameras, many of the men very excited too. For all of them, appeared to be the high point of the evening.

Yet, as Mr Williams himself said, his musical ability is insignificant compared with that of Mr Zimmer. His contribution to a track consisted of nothing more than some barely audible sounds into a microphone while the music played, while moving around in his t-shirt and short trousers. He actually seemed to be quite a nice person, but struck me and disturbed me was the utter devotion shown to this person of meagre (if any) talent, while many truly musically skilled individuals were present. Even Mr Zimmer sung the praises of Mr Williams, saying he had walked around the block and produced many “lyrics”, but this was simply embarrassing when contrasted with any of Zimmer’s scores, which skilfully communicate a range of emotions.

I thought to myself: during the 19th century an audience would have been stunned by the appearance of such an individual at a concert and would certainly not have considered him the high point of the evening. Yet here, it was something to behold as the whole audience respected him so much that they rose from their seats. An audience for Hans Zimmer, it must be noted - they had not even gone to see Mr Williams.

This got me thinking, as I often do, about whether many of the audience could truly appreciate the depth of the more sombre moments of Mr Zimmer’s music, for how could an audience on the one hand truly appreciate that depth and yet also become so excited about the “musical” achievements of someone whose talent was by any comparison insignificant? To me, this incident was another clear indication of the period of decadence through which we are currently living.

Mr Williams explained that the only reason he had been able to write the music for a film called “Despicable Me” is that Mr Zimmer was “over his shoulder the entire time". (Actually I didn't like the film or the music, finding Pixar's work far more subtle and admirable.) When I saw from photos that Zimmer was working with Mr Williams I was alarmed, but thought he was perhaps trying to elevate his work, which could be a good thing. I think it is disingenuous though for him to pretend that Mr Williams’ achievements (or in all likelihood his abilities) are of a similar standard to his own - they are simply not.

In short, his arrival seemed to me the equivalent of a street performer receiving a standing ovation upon being ushered onto the stage at a Mozart concert. Aside from that low point, this was a great evening.
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