These riots...

Examples of social decline, especially in the UK

Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 08:31

Yes, I'm not going to pull those posts, though moderator John might choose to do so. Angers flares at this disgraceful behaviour, but I will caution that we need to keep the tone and language befitting of a Dalrymple forum and of the man himself.

By the way, I would expect we will hear from him via an article soon, and there will be not much he can say except "I told you so"...
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Re: These riots...

Postby Elliott » 10 Aug 2011, 08:34

Quite an interesting post on the DT about the public and the state:

skicarver wrote:New labour wanted 'we the people' to be weak.

We were told, if you see trouble, don't get involved, call the police.

We were not even allowed to defend ourselves.

These kids have grown up in a society where no-one can challenge them. They know the police are few and far between and they cannot 'do' anything anyway.

If we stop a kid on a school day, we will be arrested, put on the sex offenders register and have our kids taken by social services and their secret courts.

This is socialism writ large.

The all powerful state, the servile populace.

I'd like to say that the coalition are better, but with their anti-democratic 'nudge' policies, they too see the state as all powerful and we, the people as 'things' to be controlled.


I think this is broadly correct. New Labour taught us to depend on the state, and we are now seeing the limits and results of that mentality. Results, as in the rioters think they're "entitled", and communities no longer know how to protect themselves. Limits, as in the state simply can't handle large volumes of barbarians acting with the attitude of entitlement and victimhood it has encouraged in them.

It is telling that the stories coming out about people looking after their patch are all about relative newcomers to our society. Young Muslims protecting their mosques, and Kurdish shopkeepers protecting their shops. These people know what it means to look after oneself and one's own. I wonder how many young Christians protected their churches?

The final paragraph, regarding the Coalition, is germane in itself. The Coalition are going to have to change as a result of these riots. Their patronising "nudge" nonsense will have to be DITCHED. And about time too!
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Re: These riots...

Postby Elliott » 10 Aug 2011, 08:36

George wrote:Whoa! I think we need to tone it down a bit here. Calling people vermin or sub-human or implying that they're worse than dogs isn't exactly civilised either.
I think it is very civilised. It is they who are not.

This is the problem. We always want to be civilised, even in the face of barbarism. Asking the barbarian to mug you gently isn't going to get you very far.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 08:56

I have not long been up after staying up late last night observing what was going on (via my television screen, I hasten to add).

I saw Manchester police make their speech and I noticed the differences between them and London police. They repeatedly appealed to the sense of community in Manchester. The London police didn't do that, because there is less sense of community there. People generally don't know or speak to their neighbours (they might not even speak the same language). Even in my building (a house divided into flats) people hardly ever speak and make no effort to get to know each other, and they are all white middle class liberals. In fact it is among the indigenous white community that there is least cohesion, in my opinion.

There's a "keep yourself to yourself" attitude in London. Somewhat understandable when so many feral and drunk people can be encountered on, for example, regional rail, and when the most commonly overheard word, from everyone, is the F word. Many times my wife has been literally terrified and just to get home has been a relief as the door closes and is locked to keep the outside world outside. These days we get taxis, regardless of price.

So the Manchester police appealed to a sense of community. I liked them a lot and felt their pain as they saw their city destroyed by mindless vandals and thieves. But I have to say even they did some across to me as rather naive as they asked parents to enquire where their children were, and to ask why they had new trainers etc. Have they not seen the photographs of the parents enlisting their children's help to load up cars with "essential goods" such as Nike trainers and PlayStations? Most of these children are likely to be commended by the parents on a good night's haul. In fact I would not be surprised if many were sent out by the parents specifically because they were under age. People really need to wake up and get with the reality of British "society".

I'm extremely glad London was kept under control.

I woke up and accidentally heard some of the Today Programme on Radio 4. The sickness had just left my stomach and it began to return. The middle class liberal female presenter was mystified as to what could be causing this, coming as she did from Rousseau's ludicrous position, so she asked some left wing people (of course) to help her understand.

These people have been brainwashed and simply cannot believe that anyone can be lazy or outright bad, and if they are being so then it must somehow be their (the liberals') fault for not being liberal enough. I still maintain that the blame should be laid fairly and squarely at the door of these people for the breakdown of law and order and of the family in the UK.

There shouldn't really be any liberals left in the UK after this. This wanton destruction and theft should be a big enough wake up call. But I'm sure there will be many.

Apparently Nick Griffin picked up 4000 new followers over the last two days. I'm not one of them, but I'm not surprised. At least he was talking about giving the police rubber bullets.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 09:49

This interview must have been quite revealing for the liberal conducting it. In it, a looter claims he can well afford the goods for himself and explains that the reason he is looting is nothing to do with any kind of statement, but simply because he can, and because he has nothing to fear from the law.

I suppose a strange thing happens inside liberals' heads when they hear this. It must kind of not compute, almost short-circuit, because it requires them to either reject what they are hearing or change their whole world view. They will of course still seek to blame law abiding people if there is any possible avenue to do so, but there are few left open.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Andy JS » 10 Aug 2011, 11:19

Personally I think it's important that the rest of us don't get sucked into using the kind of language that has become so common in Britain today, which means I try not to use words like "scum" or "filth" to describe the rioters, although I can understand why people directly affected by the disturbances might use that kind of language.

(Incidentally, I would normally refrain from writing the above comment on most blogs because it would risk inviting an abusive response from someone accusing me of being "judgmental").
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Re: These riots...

Postby Andy JS » 10 Aug 2011, 13:17

A looter appearing in court has been fined £150 and told the following by the magistrate:

“Don’t get in trouble again. You have a bright future ahead of you, if you get into trouble again you are going to jeopardise that future.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... -23334652/
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Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 15:27

Skeptical Doctor have posted Dalrymple's first response to this anarchy, which is pretty much as I expected it to be. Well, what can he say since he has been warning of this for years?
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Re: These riots...

Postby Andrea » 10 Aug 2011, 16:17

I apologise for being one of the people who called the rioters vermin, but I was terrified and upset, since I was in the Capital. That was what I felt like writing. I'm sorry, but I am an emotional woman and sometimes, the only thing one can do is write, especially amongst those one feels safe enough to write such things to. Our words are used as an emotional outlet. Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

Now that I am in the countryside, however, I am trying to get back to some normalcy today and work on my book. During my research, I came across these lines from a poem by John Dryden and I thought I might share them with you today:

Astraea Redux: A Poem On the Happy Restoration and Return of His Sacred Majestie Charles the Second:

"The Rabble now such Freedom did enjoy;
As winds at Sea, that use it to Destroy.

Blind as the Cyclops, and as wild as he,
They own'd a Savage Libertie."


I thought the above could have been used now to describe the rioters, as they were written about the rebels during the English Civil War.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Elliott » 10 Aug 2011, 16:21

Andy JS wrote:A looter appearing in court has been fined £150 and told the following by the magistrate:

“Don’t get in trouble again. You have a bright future ahead of you, if you get into trouble again you are going to jeopardise that future.”


Could it be that this whole thing, this spate of riots, is going to happen again in the near future?
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Re: These riots...

Postby Elliott » 10 Aug 2011, 21:01

Gavin wrote:This interview must have been quite revealing for the liberal conducting it. In it, a looter claims he can well afford the goods for himself and explains that the reason he is looting is nothing to do with any kind of statement, but simply because he can, and because he has nothing to fear from the law.

What's quite interesting now, and you can see it in that "interview" and others (such as a chavvy mother in Manchester) is this: the left-wing establishment's excuses for the rioters' behaviour has now been absorbed by the rioters themselves. In other words, the excuses have been dreamt up for them! They don't even have to do that!

But of course, with the dreadful state of their education, they don't understand the excuses they've been given, so when they try to repeat them it just comes out as rambling buzzwords:

"It's the guvmin innit? They're cu'in' education money so kids can't go to college innit?"

And when that drivel doesn't wash, they suddenly get honest and say they're doing it because the government can't, or won't, stop them.

It's also interesting that their views are rife with contradictions, and change by the second in order to always evade admitting they're wrong. This is something I noticed about the kids on the New Deal course - they don't know how to take anything seriously. Life is a joke, a long hunt for entertainment.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 21:15

Yes, it's funny when you hear perpetrators actually explain why they are doing something and still liberals try to create excuses for them. This reminded me rather of when Islamists explain that they don't like infidels because the Quran directs them throughout that infidels are inferior to believers, then liberals try to explain this away too and even speak of "Islamophobia".

As has been said already on the forum, it is curious the lengths people will go to in order to preserve a world view that clearly doesn't accord with evidence.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Paul » 10 Aug 2011, 21:51

George wrote:Whoa! I think we need to tone it down a bit here. Calling people vermin or sub-human or implying that they're worse than dogs isn't exactly civilised either.


I'm very sorry if I upset anyone by using certain words. I don't recall however reading the word 'sub-human'. I know I didn'tsay that. Similarly I didn'tsay these people were actually worse than dogs (though dogs are perfect companions) but that dogs didn't do the distasteful things they sometimes do. It's a reasonable observation. I apologise for the other word. I will say that I'm fairly confident TD himself has used many an unflattering term for all kinds of people, if not those words I used. 'Swine' is a word that springs to mind, even if he used it proverbially. The fact that the word is used in a common proverb or saying gives it some legitimacy as occasionally.......hum..........acceptable?
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Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 22:09

That is a sickening picture. But what is even more sickening is the thought of the extremely light sentence that would be given to the perpetrator if he were ever caught.

I just heard a Conservative MP and special police officer on the television saying that the blame for soft policing should be laid firmly at the door of Liberty and all others who have ever complained about "police brutality" etc. Of course I could not agree more. I had better stop there.
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Re: These riots...

Postby Gavin » 10 Aug 2011, 23:11

By the way, to Andrea and Paul D: no problem. :)
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