Political correctness

A topic which pervades many others

Re: Political correctness

Postby Elliott » 20 Jun 2013, 00:10

In the English version, it is London. This is actually ironic for similar reasons, Yessica: leftist policies have been driving white people out of London for years!
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Elliott » 12 Aug 2013, 18:03

I don't agree with all of the points here, but it's still good:
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Julian » 17 Sep 2013, 20:39

Dr Srdja Trifkovic compares Political Correctness with Communist totalitarianism:

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Re: Political correctness

Postby Andreas » 25 Sep 2013, 17:42

Thank you for posting the interview with Mr. Trifkovic. There is plenty of food for thought in what he says.

Like Yuri Bezmenov, he's an intellectual who has direct experience of state mind control/propaganda/brainwashing campaigns. I think he paints a rosier picture of life in Communist Yugoslavia than might really have been the case. As bad as political correctness in the West now is, it is still possible for Trifkovic to broadcast his ideas on the internet to thousands of people; the freedom of thought he enjoyed under Communism was a freedom behind closed doors, among family, friends, people one trusted (as he himself says). He could never have reached the audience under those circumstances that he now reaches.

I think he's right in stating that the educational systems of Eastern Europe, other than the mandatory Marxist fields and indoctrination, were still solid, and that one could get a good education, closer to what one would have received in Britain and Germany before World War I than today. But to say that Eastern Europe was somehow unscathed by Communism seems wrong. The Communist system fostered corruption. Almost anyone could be bought off. This is not good for the social fabric.

Trifkovic blames the Open Society Foundation for many problems in Eastern Europe today, but the answer might not be so simple (as it isn't simple for the cultural situation in the West right now). To any thinking person in Eastern Europe it was obvious that Communism was something imposed by force from without, by the Soviet Union, and that the Communists were prepared to murder, torture, and invade to maintain their power. The Western world has found itself disoriented by the collapse of Communism; so have thinking people in Eastern Europe. The same clear lines and certainty are no longer there.

Trifkovic is right that Western political correctness is more pernicious than the Communist version was. Mainly, I think, because it's more subtle. Generally there are no giant propaganda posters on every street corner. (There are exceptions, however. I had an eerie experience some years ago, flying from Vienna to Paris. At both airports I saw the same propaganda poster for the European Union, an image of EU soldiers somewhere in Africa, with the message in German and French: "The European Union fights for human rights and freedom." Better photography and graphic design, Photoshop, and higher production values, but it could have been Soviet.)

So there was a dilemma for people who had to live under Communism and there is a dilemma for us today, but different in nature. It reminds me of an anecdote I read somewhere about Dmitry Shostakovich. Someone asked him if he could compose anything he wanted in the U.S.S.R. He said, "yes, but I can't get it performed." An American composer said about the situation in the U.S., "you can get it performed here all right, but it makes no difference." I shared this with an acquaintance in college, someone from the ex-Yugoslavia, and she laughed, but concluded that the American composer's situation was the preferable one.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Nathan » 25 Sep 2013, 18:36

Andreas wrote:Trifkovic is right that Western political correctness is more pernicious than the Communist version was. Mainly, I think, because it's more subtle. Generally there are no giant propaganda posters on every street corner. (There are exceptions, however. I had an eerie experience some years ago, flying from Vienna to Paris. At both airports I saw the same propaganda poster for the European Union, an image of EU soldiers somewhere in Africa, with the message in German and French: "The European Union fights for human rights and freedom." Better photography and graphic design, Photoshop, and higher production values, but it could have been Soviet.)


That reminds me of something I saw about seven or so years ago as an exchange student in what had previously been East Germany. Coming into one of the main buildings in a place where you just could not miss it was a large poster with a carefully selected 'diverse' group of people (needless to say, only one of whom was white, despite the foreign students there being overwhelmingly European) and a message saying "Talk to a foreign exchange student...you might learn something!"

As propaganda posters go that one was definitely on the benign and friendly side and preferable to what I could easily imagine having been there in the Communist period and the Nazi one before that, but considering the excessive size of it, the positioning, and the imperative tone I couldn't fail to notice that propaganda was what it was, and more earnest and blatant than I'd expect to see here in Britain with our lack of totalitarian history.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Charlie » 06 Jan 2014, 19:56

Evander Holyfield, the top ex-heavyweight boxer and Christian, is admonished for daring to utter his HateThought™ out loud on a dreadful TV show.

PS: The top-rated comment is spot on!
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Gavin » 06 Jan 2014, 20:06

I liked this one too:

I find Graham Norton's endless innuendos about homosexual acts to be highly offensive, but no one is censoring him. Ten years ago I didn't mind homosexuals, but I am now growing to hate them for the way they are seeking to force the agenda of the 1% onto the 99%.


I don't mind gays either. I can honestly say the cliche that some of my best friends are gay. But the ones who will not shut up about it are really annoying and simply encourage "homophobia". Only it's not homophobia, is it? That's a made-up word like "Islamophobia". It's homo-hostility and "Islamophobia" is just decency and rational good sense.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Nathan » 06 Jan 2014, 20:08

Heh. And yet the article is dead right about how you don't really have to be that old to remember a time when to say in public that homosexuality was normal would have caused a stir.

I vaguely remember hearing an archive clip from a BBC radio debate in the 1960s on legalising homosexuality where somebody was widely cheered for saying that homosexual acts were disgusting and to condone them would make us no better than animals.

Has the nature of homosexuality changed in the meantime?
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Gavin » 06 Jan 2014, 20:13

p.s. Strangely enough I did find Julian Clary very funny. But then I think his double entrendres were particularly witty - and it was early days then. Getting tired now. What was "radical" is now just brow beating and not funny any more. Gays are accepted. The gays just need to get over it. They're not special any more. Old news.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Elliott » 07 Jan 2014, 02:54

Just for the record...

I was once sitting in a (regular) bar in Edinburgh, during the Festival, and realised that Julian Clary was sitting a few tables away from me with a friend. I think we made eye contact and smiled politely. Some time later, a young woman (about 20) came up to him and gave him a flyer for a show she was doing in the Festival with some friends. Clary asked her questions about it and encouraged her. I have rarely seen such a warm, genuine and humble attitude, and I suspect that it is even more rare among celebrities. I have admired Clary ever since.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Gavin » 11 Sep 2014, 20:04

I just tuned in to LBC for a while. They were having a phone-in about a campaign just getting underway whereby all 5,000 professional footballers in the UK are to be sent "rainbow bootlaces" by Stonewall which they will then be expected to wear to show that they are against homophobia in football.

Of course, the discussion did not touch at all on the point that this will in fact oblige all those sent the bootlaces to wear them, otherwise they will be at once accused of being, themselves, homophobes.

One man phoned in and said that all gays should be obliged to out themselves if they wanted statutory protection, and he was uncomfortable with the idea of gays being "titillated" in the changing rooms while ogling straight men. This, being quite un-PC, caused some consternation and has been somewhat the focus of calls (from gays) since.

But straight after him, a black man, 22, called in. He made the point that in his opinion this homophobia should never be compared with racism, because racism was much more serious. He stated that whites had been "enslaving blacks for thousands of years" and it was still going on now (probably in London, according to him). The presenter did not reply that actually blacks had enslaved each other just as much, nor that most assaults and robberies are by blacks against whites rather than vice versa. Nor that black people will soon be a majority in a capital city built by white people. Nor numerous other counter-arguments.

The young black man then went on to say that if he was walking though a "white area like Knightsbridge" then the police might question him as a black man. The presenter did not point out in reply that Knightsbridge is more of an Arab area, nor did he ask whether this had actually happened to the young man or whether it was just an idle postulation. Pretty much, the black man was able to say whatever he wanted on this topic and was not challenged at all (because of course it would be "racism" to do so, regardless of truth value, we are so far gone).

But the best from that call was yet to come! The young black man then started saying that in his opinion homosexuality was wrong anyway and was unnatural. The presenter went very gently on him for this, saying he was entitled to his opinion but it was "probably best for a discussion for another day" - and he ended the call. What you think he would have done had it been, instead, a white man stating those opinions?

Pretty funny stuff, but outrageous and dangerous for civilisation at the same time.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Nathan » 12 Sep 2014, 07:24

Haha, love it!

We should work out the hierarchy of these various "-isms" and phobias to see which special interest group comes where in terms of the level of protection accorded to them.

  • Racism would obviously be the number one.
  • Homophobia is clearly considered less important than racism if being black alone lets you get away with saying things like that.
  • Sexism also clearly comes behind racism in the pecking order if Muslim radicals speaking at universities are allowed to enforce segregated seating for male and female attendees even if they are not Muslim.

I'd actually put Islamophobia at the bottom of that list as I don't know anybody who doesn't think that it's a sick joke considering how Islam behaves towards more or less anything that isn't Islam, but of course most Muslims know they can just place the race card anyway so it's rather a moot point.

Anybody want to expand on this?
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Gavin » 12 Sep 2014, 09:41

I think that’s probably the right ranking of PC "top trumps"!

On another note entirely, I think we are still some way from the climate changing in, for example, workplaces, despite Rotherham and all the other scandals. I was just reflecting on that here where I work.

People will still casually mention with pride that they read The Guardian, as if assuming that any right-minded and “right-on” person does. They’re progressive. There’s a smugness with it. But were I to say “I don’t read that because the kind of thinking that goes into it allowed incidents like Rotherham” then that would still be simply beyond the pale for the workplace - even after so many things have happened!

Were I to simply state the kind of views we do on here, then I would doubtless be quietly informed that my services (as a programmer, mind you) are no longer needed. But Leftists could still spout any rubbish they like and be considered righteous and worthy.

This being the case it really makes one wonder what it would take for Leftism to be defeated in popular and corporate (not to mention civil service) culture.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Charlie » 12 Sep 2014, 10:03

Gavin wrote:They’re progressive.


If only they'd admit what they were progressing towards.
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Re: Political correctness

Postby Gavin » 14 Nov 2014, 18:03

I noticed Paul Weston recently recommend this description of typical PC merchants from this article:

Paul Johnson wrote:I have the impression that most PC advocates and enforcers in this country are women in their thirties or forties, with some education of a red-brick or white-tile nature, no longer young enough to be much interested in sex but old enough to have acquired a certain modest authority in their work, which is overwhelmingly in the state sector, and often unmarried or childless (a significant section of the rank-and-file is employed in making it difficult to adopt children, an area where PC rules are enforced with peculiar ferocity).

I would also describe these women as unappealing physically, non-orgasmic, disapproving and fastidious by nature, embittered by personal misfortune or slights real or imaginary, overwhelmingly agnostic or atheist, women who in an earlier age might well have been nuns but are now fanatics for whom class warfare and hatred of Christianity form a fulfilling creed. They are mainly bureaucrats, in the state-education system, both local and national, librarians, office-holders in the administrative side of the NHS, minor potentates in town halls and government agencies, law centres, environmental pressure groups, charities and other religion substitutes.

There are a significant number on the New Labour backbenches and three or four in the government, though on the whole PC zealots tend to remain anonymous, even furtive. But we are beginning to see the first PC chief constables and judges, ambitious but mediocre individuals who sniff which way the ideological wind is blowing and trim their decisions accordingly.


That article was written in 2005 and haven't we indeed seen a lot of horrible PC in high places since then?! Portentous. The thing is, none of these jobs that these women do actually require any special skill or talent, either. They're probably not even necessary - Blair created them into order to lower unemployment (and increase national debt) in the worst possible way. What a state of affairs. Vote UKIP for there to be any hope.
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