Thoughts on the Manchester bombing

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Re: Thoughts on the Manchester bombing

Postby Jonathan » 27 May 2017, 19:01

I think the question is "Why do they feel their honour to be offended?" and I suggest the answer lies in the kind of things I mentioned: underachievement - in part perhaps due to lower IQ, knowing they have a primitive culture, feeling like a fish out of water (not being dominant in someone else's country), dismay at seeing even a decadent culture do better than theirs.

These things are, of course, true, but they are also true in part of other groups who have arrived in Britain, and elsewhere, and who have not failed to integrate so spectacularly. There are a million Poles in Britain - or so I have read - doing menial jobs. They must surely feel like a fish out of water, and have a certain sense of underachievement, and they witness decadence no less than the Muslims. Dalrymple often cites the Sikhs as an example of immigrants who have started from a similar position (though not with the same cultural baggage) and have done quite well. All the examples you cite are true, but I think there are two root causes which underlie them.

1) They come from a culture in which the primary significance of any utterance is how it reflects upon the honor of those present. Each word or gesture is weighed so as not to cause offense - or perhaps deliberately to cause offense. The primary difference between children and adults is that children are too young to be trusted to speak without causing dishonor, whereas adults can (in western societies, the difference is that children are not generally trusted to tell the truth or keep their word).

2) In the west, they indulge their grievances because they can afford to. The western man is not about to summon twenty uncles with one phone call, whereas they can. The western girl walking alone will slap them in the face, expecting them to accept the rebuke, but they can punch her and kick her and no-one will stop them. In a phrase, they get offended because they can afford to get offended.

I probably sound a lot more confident in my description than I actually feel. The main flaw (and I think it's a considerable one) is that if this was the primary root cause, then the first generation of immigrants would be giving us the greater part of the problem, whereas in the second or third generation the problems would diminish considerably. In fact, the opposite seems to be true.

On race, I just wonder whether the red-head English convert ever is considered such a tight member of the group as the Middle Eastern Muslims.

Now that I think about it, I imagine most muslim societies are fractured on the basis of race, clan, sect (shia/sunni), and perhaps a hundred other lines. So I probably greatly overstated the redhead's degree of acceptance.

I wonder if the immigrant does not still see evidence of a culture his people simply did not build all around him

It might be that all he sees is nightclubs and prostitutes.

I think we have to bear in mind that the media and political class had great control and influence at that time

Yeah, good point.

but of which they were told they must approve otherwise they were evil.

That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? There are so many easy, humane ways these problems could have been avoided, but for two generations everyone's been told that simply acknowledging the problem is invariably a sign of the most extreme fascism.

I think there is a strong case that the immigrants are far more "racist" than we...

I heard one of them was even antisemitic! ;)
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Re: Thoughts on the Manchester bombing

Postby Jonathan » 29 May 2017, 21:35

A couple of interesting articles on this topic by Dalrymple, courtesy of the forum's twitter feed: ... -republic/ ... 15210.html
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Re: Thoughts on the Manchester bombing

Postby Andy JS » 03 Jun 2017, 22:56

Unfortunately there seems to have been a terrorist incident in London this evening. News is still coming in. I won't start a new thread yet.
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Re: Thoughts on the Manchester bombing

Postby Gavin » 03 Jun 2017, 23:02

I have started one but saved it as a draft. Let's see what happens, though I will say I am now of a mind that a military coup is required in the UK - the sooner the better - as it is clear that none of our political parties would ever take the measures that are required to return our country, and our security, to us.
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Re: Thoughts on the Manchester bombing

Postby Danny » 04 Jun 2017, 01:19

It's late and I'm sat in front of Sky News watching the country burn...

Earlier this week I shared a drink with a friend considering upping sticks and relocating to New Zealand. Britain, he said, was finished. Manchester, he said, was just a prelude of things to come.

New Zealand, I suggested, was a bit far away. I asked him if he'd considered anywhere nearer. He replied (somewhat sheepishly) that he'd been scanning old family photos to an album as a present for his mum.

While uploading pictures from long-forgotten family holidays something had struck him:

"Ideally I would have raised my family in Britain, but in the 50s."

I asked him why

"It just seemed a better place to live."

I've felt the same looking over old photographs.

I'm a native Londoner. My parents were raised in parts of town that are now almost uniformly Muslim.

The city my grandparents were raised in was largely free from everything liberals tell me makes modern London such a fabulous place to live - 'vibrance' 'diversity' - and, bluntly, was much better for it.

I look at photos of pre-multicultural London and I feel a little ashamed by the present. I see people with self-respect. Smartly dressed people. Men in suits and ties. Women in dresses. Kids dressed like kids, and not apprentice drug dealers. I see signs of community life - local shops and friendly-looking pubs.

The Britain of my grandparents' generation was not merely a different country, it was a *better* country. Their generation would have gone to war with this evil, not shrugged it off as 'part of living in a major city'. They would not have equivocated about 'social alienation'. This terror wave is as much product of our cultural decline as it is Islam.

This election feels irrelevant. Watching the debates has felt like listening to the Titanic's house band fight over the set-list as the engine rooms fill with water.

Britain is broken. Someone - the military? - needs to step in and hit the reboot button, and quick.
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